jdrnd

Abaco, I feel for you. My son is a freshman in high school. He wanted to tryout for the freshman Soccer team (he's played recreational soccer since he was 6). To prepare, he attends a soccer camp in the first week of August, a fitness camp in the second week of August (both run by the HS Soccer coach) and tryouts for the team in the third week. He doesn't make the team. All the players that made it, had been playing on the Travel (competitive) Soccer team of our town for the past 3 years (the HS Soccer coach is the asst coach on the travel team). These players made it despite the fact that many of the players did poorly in the formal tryouts. What my son learned was that the tryouts had been going on for the past 3 years. The "official tryouts" (analagous to your "signup sheet") had to occur for political reasons. After all there could have been a spectacular player not known to the coach (who by the way has his fingers in all things Soccer in our area) that blew everyone away and just by sheer ability made the team. It was a good lesson for my son. Now he can concentrate on having fun just playing recreational soccer. In some ways, your story reminded me of what just happened to him. Jeff

If I'm going to spend $2000 for a guitar I assume that those pickups are matched to that body. I'm not going to touch it. But I am thinking of buying a used Sunburst archtop and swapping pickups on it to see what sounds I can make (if my wife lets me spend a few more hundred on guitars and things). ...wistfully objective data would be useful.

Just Kidding! Jeff

I was really ready to let this thread die.... ...and then I find it in the top 25 again. Since Tobereeno saw fit to resurrect this thread I feel obligated to restate my case in long drawn out incredibly detailed redundant paragraphs. So here goes...

okay, so Mike means that the fretwire is polished. If thats the case then that would affect intonation.

Mile, "The one thing that is almost universal is the quality of the fretwork. Properly crowned and polished frets will intonate and play better than roughly finished frets. This is one place where Hamer consistently eclipses Gibson. If you want, we could measure the surface finish of the frets with a profilometer, but all you have to do is bend a string or two and add a little vibrato to see for yourself. We can also judge quality based on semi-objective measures - overall fit and finish, fit of the binding, finish bleed on binding, excess glue at joints, amount of filler around the inlays, neatness of wiring and soldering. These are the things we talk about when we say a Hamer is built better than a Gibson, and for the most part, these things are consistently better on Hamers. Before I owned a Hamer I tried to buy a Gibson and was disgusted at the poor quality of workmanship for the price asked. Hamer was better and less expensive. And this is based on someone who was biased in favor of Gibson to start out with. " Do you mean fret bars or frets. The fret bars on Hamers (at least my Hamer), are high, so if I press the string to the fret surface I bend the string out of tune. In fact that was what I was doing when I brought my guitar home. It took a while to lighten my grip (my acoustic had 012 strings). Since one doesn't push the string to the fret surface, how would polished frets affect intonation? Jeff

If I hadn't taken a wrong turn in my first year of college and switched majors from Music to science, I would be a rockstar. You would all be talking about which guitar, pickups, amps, and settings to use to emulate my playing. Luthiers would be sneaking in to my dressing room dropping guitars off for me to try so they could obtain testimonials from me; and now that I can afford to buy a good instrument and spend some time playing, its too late. I don't know what I was thinking when I decided to become a scientist. Life is definitely not fair.

Matt, I agree that there are thousands of variables. The year is 2006. We have computers. ...is there really such a thing as GC goober? or is your example equivalent to a SRP Ratpus limited edition? (Sometimes I can't tell when you guys are goofing on me or not; the learning curve for guitar-speak is steep) Jeff

Jonathan, You have given me the most reasonable explanations for the beauty of subjectitvity and why it counts most in guitars, guitar playing, and for that matter, music in general. There is little that you say that I disagree with. But on top of what you say imagine the degree of sophistication and complexity that this discussion would have if one could decribe the objective characteristics of each instrument and amplifier that contribute to the subjective experience that you (and almost everyone else) describes. Jeff

MTM105 What did the elephant sat to the naked man? (answer below) Mike, I'm a Neurologist... (I also have a PhD in Biology (neuroscience) which I obtained prior to medical school). What do you do? Jonathan, What do you mean by "funky vibe"? If someone said to me, buy this guitar because it has funky vibes, how could I evaluate what that means. If someone said buy this guitar because 1. it has interesting overtones in the lower registers, 2. that person produced some sought of printout, and 3. the waveform of the printout correlated to a particular sound that I could recognize, I could at least get an idea of what that person means. Its the type of indistinctness that I came across when I was guitar shopping that drove me crazy. (I admit that it sounds like I'm driving everyone else crazy with my crusade to standardize guitar descriptions, but everyone would benefit). I don't understand why there's so much resistance. Knowledge is power. Answer: "Its cute but can you beathe through it?" Jeff

JohnnyB Hi dose Valium is better.

sw686blue, I'm having fun! I really enjoyed Mike's comments. I'm technically inclined. I I don't think your rude at all, my wife is a lot more nasty towards me when I get carried away, She would have used alot more colorful language than you did. I am sorry that your not finding this interesting. By the way, just to show no hard feelings let me add a joke: Why do rabbits do it Quietly? (answer at bottom) "Go tell Hamer, McNaught, Thorn, Driskill, Koll, Heatley, Baker, Robin, PRS, McInturff, etc that they are not interested in developping a better guitar and let me know what their reply is." Its one thing to say your developing guitars, its another to actually do it. I would be interested in seeing axactly how much technolpgy is actually used by these companies to develop guitars. To Mike: I've even plugged a guitar into a computer running a spectrum analyzer with a waterfall plot. I was able to see in real time the frequency cancellation that occurs when pickups are mixed together, especially the neck/middle combo on a Strat. It was neat, but it doesn't explain why I like that sound so much, and some other people don't. Where can I get a spectrum analyzer. Are there any computer programs that function as one. Is there really something called a waterfall plot? and I am happy with my AK P-90. Answer They have cotton balls! Jeff

Jonathan, You basically made my argument. The $120 Dean Tonic probably sounds better then the Hamer 30th Ann LTD because it is better. Objective measurments of playing characteristics would probably support your subjective findings. The 30th anniversary model is a marketing ploy. Like the 50th anniversary of Disneyland, the limited edition Ford (not fender) Mustang with the fancy fins. Disneyland or the Ford Mustang are not any better because 50 years have passed or the car has fins, their just marketed these things to generate excitement and thus more sales. The fact that Hamer allows a connection between the HFC and its web site is for marketing purposes. The HFC is doing Hamer a favor (I think I may have gotten myself in trouble with this last statement... should I leave it in and risk getting ostracized, I guess we'll all found out after I press the "Add Reply" button). I realized after going through this thread that my perspective is different than the 30 or so people that commented. The AK P-90 that I bought a few months ago, is now my good guitar. I'm not going to buy another one (despite my bravado). I have limited experience playing the width and breadth of guitars that many people in this forum have played. During my buying adventures, every "experienced" person that I asked advice from about which guitar to buy had a different opinion. The reason that the suggestion that "I buy the guitar that sounds best for me" is silly, is in the store they all sounded great. Remember I was coming from what was considered, in its day, to be a student guitar (Fender Mustang) and Compared to the AK P-90 it clearly is... even if the mustang twang is crystal clear. I wanted to buy a professional guitar that I wouldn't outgrow. With objective data I might have elected to buy a non USA Hamer, or a high end Ibanez. I don't have the time to go to every store and try out every guitar. 224 guitars, wow. and according to darc thats nothing! I don't own or work in a music store, I haven't played a gig since 1968 when I was a senior in high school (Oops I giving a way my age), and my chances of becoming a rock star before I have my first stroke are less than being abducted by aliens. I just want to sit in my basement and play guitar and know I have a good instrument. Objective measurements of guitars would have given me a selection of guitars in a certain range. From their my subjective mode could have kicked in and I could pick the guitar that sounded best to me from that group. I wonder how many people are similar to me. That is they like to play, usually play by themselves or occasionaly in small informal groups, never played more than 7 guitars in their life, own 2 or 3 guitars ( their first one, a good one and a better one) and never evolve past that point. I aspire to be like those of you who play professionally, but its not going to happen. ...and lastly the guitar makers are never going to use engineering to make better instruments if they get the impression that those of us buying them, don't care, Or that we are easily susceptible to fancy marketing. Instead of improving the instrument, they'll take a guitar like the Artist Korina P-90, add a turtle inlay at the 12th fret and call it the Artist Special addition Turtle Anniversary model... a model that soundwise is no better than the standard Artist Korina P-90 but because of the hype it will be sold for $1000 more. Jeff

So Matt, You mean you check it out to see if it sounds and plays terrible. Then regardless, you ultimately make your decison based on: 1. The worse the cosmetic appearance the better. 2. The brand name on the headstock ...so epiphone, harmony over hamer or gibson 3. as many solder points that can be seen the better 4. How dorky you think it will make you look 5. How sure you are that it will make you sound like Brittany Spears??? I still think objective measurments would be useful. Wouldn't you like to know how good Britany Spears action is and the length of her sustain. Not to mention her frequency response at her open frets. Jeff

Okay I give up... For now I still like Myers Rum.