harry65 Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 hey dudes, thinkin i need to upgrade from my super champ xd as the gig is gettin real serious, we do modern country, i'm pretty sure one of these two amps will fit the bill, i've heard and played thru a deluxe reverb and loved it, never had the chance to play a princeton, fender has reissues of both in their current catalog, anyone have any opinions on the differences, they seem very similar in output , layout and such, as always your help would be mucho appreciato, btw the sound i'm after is that just on the edge of breakup thing that only fender can do(if you know something else that does please let me know, dr z???????)with lots o sparkle and some killer reverb....................................
Moose Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Haven't heard the new Princetons (have heard the Deluxe, but I can't compare directly).However, if it's anything like the originals, I actually like the Princetons better in some ways.As a gross simplification, what a princeton was in the blackface era was the tremolo channel of the Deluxe reverb with a different phase inverter -- that stage driving the power amp was more like the ones used in the tweed era amplifiers. The princetons still ran the way-too-high voltage that makes the Deluxe reverb 6v6 sound, has a similar trem and reverb sound, and I expect this would be the case with the reissue.The difference is that there will be a little less headroom, and a different feel to how it goes from clean to distorted due to the different phase inverter. I'm a huge tweed fan, so I LIKE this difference, but the point is that the difference is there and could be good or bad depending on your ears and taste. I'd guess that, if you play on the edge of clean and don't need a ton of wattage, you'd like the princeton's breakup.The things that are not as good include the 10" speaker, which I just don't like as much as a 12". It might suit country just fine, though. You don't get the "normal" channel, which is the non-trem channel, and that might bum some BFDR aficionados out as that's where you can get a hard-driven, reedy honk out of a BFDR.Mostly, other than the 10" speaker limiting your choice for upgrades (and some bottom end), I think the princeton would work for you.For other options -- I had a ToneKing on my bench last month (a head -- they no longer make that format) and it sounded like the bitchenest Blackface fender you ever heard. They're built like a tank, too, and servicing it was like solving a chinese puzzle box at first, but the design is remarkably roadworthy. It had a little more midrange focus and a little less jangle and sparkle than some blackface style amps, but it still had plenty of the top end charm and with the right speaker it would really jangle nicely. I haven't played any other blackface style boutiques recently to compare to the Fenders, though there should be many options out there other might chime in with.
ArnieZ Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Lots of amps do great on the edge of breakup sounds, but don't necessarily have the black face tone. The Dr Z Z28 is more in the brownface category between tweed and BF. Speaker choice can move you more towards Fender tone or british tone. With 2 10s the amp has a lot of spank and a real tight bottom. The Maz Jr is a very popular amp that also has reverb, the 28 does not. The Maz has a very effective master volume. As far as the Princeton vs Deluxe, unless you're gonna mike the amp, the 10" speaker and decreased power make it a less deirable giggng amp to me. I owned a DRRI concurrently with my Z28 and for my preference it was no contest. Having said that the Z28 is a lot more $$ and should sound better.ArnieZ
harry65 Posted July 5, 2009 Author Posted July 5, 2009 thanks dudes, you never let me down, we definitely mike everything(our thursday night gig is outdoors for usually between 1000-1500 peeps), large stage, just ran down to gc to try a used drri they had, had just the sound i was looking for but had a weird distorted farty sound when cranked and playing the open low E string!!!!!!!!!!! almost like a crackling sound, baffled the guys down there, i've heard dr Z kinda copped the fender thing, might be outa my budget right now however, hmmm............................................
bobbymack Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Get a DRRI and replace the speaker with a ceramic tone tubby or Cannabis Rex, you're there. The Princeton has a 10" speaker which you'll end up wanting to upgrade to 12" which will mean a new baffle, etc etc...There's a reason many consider the 60's Deluxe Reverb the greatest amp of all time.
harry65 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Posted July 6, 2009 Haven't heard the new Princetons (have heard the Deluxe, but I can't compare directly).However, if it's anything like the originals, I actually like the Princetons better in some ways.As a gross simplification, what a princeton was in the blackface era was the tremolo channel of the Deluxe reverb with a different phase inverter -- that stage driving the power amp was more like the ones used in the tweed era amplifiers. The princetons still ran the way-too-high voltage that makes the Deluxe reverb 6v6 sound, has a similar trem and reverb sound, and I expect this would be the case with the reissue.The difference is that there will be a little less headroom, and a different feel to how it goes from clean to distorted due to the different phase inverter. I'm a huge tweed fan, so I LIKE this difference, but the point is that the difference is there and could be good or bad depending on your ears and taste. I'd guess that, if you play on the edge of clean and don't need a ton of wattage, you'd like the princeton's breakup.The things that are not as good include the 10" speaker, which I just don't like as much as a 12". It might suit country just fine, though. You don't get the "normal" channel, which is the non-trem channel, and that might bum some BFDR aficionados out as that's where you can get a hard-driven, reedy honk out of a BFDR.Mostly, other than the 10" speaker limiting your choice for upgrades (and some bottom end), I think the princeton would work for you.For other options -- I had a ToneKing on my bench last month (a head -- they no longer make that format) and it sounded like the bitchenest Blackface fender you ever heard. They're built like a tank, too, and servicing it was like solving a chinese puzzle box at first, but the design is remarkably roadworthy. It had a little more midrange focus and a little less jangle and sparkle than some blackface style amps, but it still had plenty of the top end charm and with the right speaker it would really jangle nicely. I haven't played any other blackface style boutiques recently to compare to the Fenders, though there should be many options out there other might chime in with.thanks , i guess the question is which has quicker breakup??????? if the pr has slower breakup it might work for me...........................
ArnieZ Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 Deluxe Reverbs are known to fart out on the bottom end when driven. Tube selection and speaker replacement are big helps.ArnieZ
harry65 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Posted July 6, 2009 Deluxe Reverbs are known to fart out on the bottom end when driven. Tube selection and speaker replacement are big helps.ArnieZya know what, come to think of it my old singer had a mid 70's one for a while and it did the same thing, thing is it was doing it thru a mesa cab that handles 140 watts , tube issue???????????????? what tubes(never seen an amp with so many tubes)?????????????????
ajoso Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 You mentioned the reissues. I recently a/b'd the Deluxe and Princeton reissues in a store (so I couldn't get very loud). I can say that I found the tones *very* similar, but I prefered the tremelo and bass response of the Deluxe. Bigger cab and a 12' speaker I guess. The tremelo had a wider range on the Deluxe and generally seemed more useable to me. The one on the Princeton was too subtle.On the other hand I recently played through a DRRI that I found waaay too bright - mind you it was a little bit beat. A friend of mine has a modded 70's Princeton that sounds capital A-Amazing.
harry65 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Posted July 6, 2009 You mentioned the reissues. I recently a/b'd the Deluxe and Princeton reissues in a store (so I couldn't get very loud). I can say that I found the tones *very* similar, but I prefered the tremelo and bass response of the Deluxe. Bigger cab and a 12' speaker I guess. The tremelo had a wider range on the Deluxe and generally seemed more useable to me. The one on the Princeton was too subtle.On the other hand I recently played through a DRRI that I found waaay too bright - mind you it was a little bit beat. A friend of mine has a modded 70's Princeton that sounds capital A-Amazing.thanks, i wish i could find a shop around here that stocked both, i don't use tremolo so that's not an issue, gotta find a place that has the princeton.....................................
ArnieZ Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 There are lots of mods for the DRRI. When I had mine I was making a list of what I wanted to do. There is an easy mod for the brightness in the reverb channel. It involves clipping a cap that is attached to the volume control. Supposed to be very easy and I'm sure minimal cost when you take the amp to be biased. They run the bias cold to preserve the tubes.ArnieZ
Bruiser Brody Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 I love Fender tube amps! Just got a DRRi. My Deluxe starts breaking up a little after 3--still has the stock speaker..might swap for a Rex or Texas Heat. It's all about the guitar knobs when cranked. Got an OCD for it for more dirt when needed. Great amp for the bands I play out with - think Cross-Canadian type stuff. Not heavy either..I used to haul around a Twin and then a Lonestar (LS for sale btw!). I played an old Princeton last week..sweet amp but already have a Cajun loaded SC for writing/jammin' around the casas.
Frank Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 I love my '66 DR. I have played through a vintage Princeton as well, and the DR beats it hands down. Mine starts to break up at 4 on the volume knob, but since I mike it I can keep it lower and get crystal clear tones. I didn't think I needed the tremelo either, but since I've gotten the DR I find it really gives some needed boost in some songs. I can't imagine ever getting rid of this amp.
sirDaniel Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 Deluxe Reverbs are known to fart out on the bottom end when driven. I thought you were going to say your singer did that
harry65 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Posted July 6, 2009 Deluxe Reverbs are known to fart out on the bottom end when driven. I thought you were going to say your singer did that he did...........profusely.............................................
hamerican gigolo Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I have a PR clone (Headstrong Lil' King) with a 12" speaker. Probably the best tone i have ever had & i have owned more than a few amps. The last time i was in Nashville,i was watching a player & he had a original blackface DR. Fantastic tone! You may need a DR to hang with a drummer,but there are plenty of players who gig quite nicely with Princetons.
hardheartedbill Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 I have a deluxe that I wish was a princeton. you gig alot Harry, look into Tophats
harry65 Posted July 12, 2009 Author Posted July 12, 2009 I have a deluxe that I wish was a princeton. you gig alot Harry, look into Tophatshmmm , thanks.............................
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