Jason Becker - Paganini's 5th Caprice

[Moose]

it the most lifeless thing I've ever heard.. while they may have been extremely moved by what they were doing.. but I still don't think it would be for "me" to pass judgement on whether not it was or was not "music".

Do you know what a "Straw Man" argument is? Because you're doing it again.

In vulgar internet speak, it means "you're getting all butt-hurt over something I didn't say."

Nobody is saying it isn't music. Yet the position you are defending is just that. Can you really not see the distinction, or are you just being obstinate because it's the internets and that's what people are supposed to do here?

If it's the former, let me try and show the difference.

Go Tell Aunt Rodie played by the 6th grade band is music just as much as Pavarotti singing La Boheme at La Scala. But I would find it much less musical than the operatic production. And, frankly, I'm the PERFECT person to make such a judgment from my perspective, even though I have no talent as an operatic tenor and no desire to learn Go Tell Aunt Rodie with a bunch of 10 year olds again.

Each are for different audiences, and appreciated for different reasons. The 6th grade recital is for parents, who find joy in their children's progress and first public performance. The house at La Scala is a showcase of some of the finest professional musicians in the world, put on for discerning audiences who love opera and judge it against other great productions they've seen and heard. I wouldn't be surprised if you saw more tears flow from the emotional impact of the 6th graders' recital, based on the audience.

But, again, both are music, while I would probably find one performance decidedly less musical than the other.

[zorrow]

I have come to believe that guys like Jason Becker and Yngwie conceptualize music and what they hear in their head in a different manner.

What is playing in more traditional players heads in my opinion from a playing perspective are individual notes like what was mentioned above. Holding a bend, getting a note to express overtones and harmonics, etc...

Maybe doing a trill between 2 notes.

A shredder conceptualizes differently. They hear groups of notes and tonal centers and how those groups and tonal centers connect with one another or create tension against one another. They don't approach the guitar from the perspective of just playing a single note and getting maximum tone from that note. They hear entire chords, movements and leads and solos played that create a certain feel withing those chords and movements. They hear a guitar orchestra as apposed to a blues solo.

Two totally different ways to approach the instrument I guess is what I am saying.

Interesting... So I guess guys like Uli Jon Roth, Michael Schenker and Marty Friedman are just "traditional players" who got skills too... or maybe they just mix both approaches. In any case, your reflexion above is very interesting to me. Thanks!

[Guest JackButler]

Its all cool. Sometimes in life, in marriage, etc.. we just come to a point where we have to agree to disagree.

[shredmeister]

Interesting... So I guess guys like Uli Jon Roth, Michael Schenker and Marty Friedman are just "traditional players" who got skills too... or maybe they just mix both approaches. In any case, your reflexion above is very interesting to me. Thanks!

Read a lot about Uli. He is discussed at length on many forums. He is described as sort of the grandfather to the neo-classical approach on electric guitar. He is the connection between what Schenker is doing (blues - pentatonic based approach) and what Yngwie does. Going by what I have read Uli seems to be the first player to shred arpeggios on an electric. Way ahead of his time.

Schenker is very very good. One of the best vocabularies of vibrato of any player I have ever heard. One of the most melodic players I have ever heard. But he would not be classified as a shredder. If you have ever seen him he in fact plays mostly with 3 fingers - most of the time. Amazing player none the less.

Friedman on the other hand is definitely in the shredder category. In fact he was in Cacophony with Jason Becker. The youtube stuff is most impressive but I can take only so much of it.

[harry65]

Interesting... So I guess guys like Uli Jon Roth, Michael Schenker and Marty Friedman are just "traditional players" who got skills too... or maybe they just mix both approaches. In any case, your reflexion above is very interesting to me. Thanks!

Read a lot about Uli. He is discussed at length on many forums. He is described as sort of the grandfather to the neo-classical approach on electric guitar. He is the connection between what Schenker is doing (blues - pentatonic based approach) and what Yngwie does. Going by what I have read Uli seems to be the first player to shred arpeggios on an electric. Way ahead of his time.

Schenker is very very good. One of the best vocabularies of vibrato of any player I have ever heard. One of the most melodic players I have ever heard. But he would not be classified as a shredder. If you have ever seen him he in fact plays mostly with 3 fingers - most of the time. Amazing player none the less.

Friedman on the other hand is definitely in the shredder category. In fact he was in Cacophony with Jason Becker. The youtube stuff is most impressive but I can take only so much of it.

if there's a better example of perfect rock guitar playing than the song "catch your train" on the virgin killer album i am not aware of it , tone, melody, chops, vibrato and a tons o fire ,from the opening feedback of the song to the last note it never gets old...............

[sw686blue]

Very impressive!

[Bruiser Brody]

I like that pick attack sound when peeps shred. Soothing.

[chap]

I have come to believe that guys like Jason Becker and Yngwie conceptualize music and what they hear in their head in a different manner.

What is playing in more traditional players heads in my opinion from a playing perspective are individual notes like what was mentioned above. Holding a bend, getting a note to express overtones and harmonics, etc...

Maybe doing a trill between 2 notes.

A shredder conceptualizes differently. They hear groups of notes and tonal centers and how those groups and tonal centers connect with one another or create tension against one another. They don't approach the guitar from the perspective of just playing a single note and getting maximum tone from that note. They hear entire chords, movements and leads and solos played that create a certain feel withing those chords and movements. They hear a guitar orchestra as apposed to a blues solo.

Two totally different ways to approach the instrument I guess is what I am saying.

I like it all and too much of anything gets boring. I burn out faster I guess listening so shred stuff but I get sick of blues also. Gotta have variety.

As far as shredders go Jason Becker seems to keep my interest more than most. There are other good ones - Yngwie, Vinne Moore, George Bellas. Lots of guys. But then you gotta ask yourself if you don't like shredders do you like Flamenco guitar? I love Flamenco and it is basically shredding on an acoustic. There are jazz shredders too - Al Dimeola for example.

Lots and lots of guys like to play fast. I see nothing wrong with that. To each their own.

Listen to the 6th song on the Perpetual Burn CD - about the last 3rd of the tune is Becker shredding blues. It is fascinating to hear blues played this way. I always thought that this

passage was one of the coolest on the CD.

The other thing is sometimes stuff is a blast to play but boring to listen to. Playing and listening are two different things too.

So what does it come down to - what is music? I don't know.

Great insights! I really enjoyed reading this...

I never thought to stop and reflect on why I admire shredders. I tihnk you make some very valid points there...

HFC rocks.