OD pedals - "Lost in the mix"...

[bobbymack]

The Fulldrive II thread got me to thinking about this OD pedal phenomenon, and I thought I'd see what you guys think about what it is, or what causes it...

I'm talking about "that logic defying thing we've all experienced where you kick it in to solo and suddenly you seemingly have less balls and volume than you had before. Most guys I know have experienced it with one OD pedal or another, nobody seems to know exactly what causes it (I believe it has to do with what else is in your signal chain)..."

OD pedals I've had that have come and gone due to this tendency included the FDII, Blackstone OD1 and 2, even the RC Boost. Its very weird and counterintuitive when it happens, I think its some complex equation of what's on the pedal board, in what order, true bypass vs buffered, etc etc etc...I doubt it would happen if the signal chain was guitar to OD to amp...

Any thoughts?

edited for lacko coordination

[DavidE]

I mentioned in the FD thread that there's a physics based explanation that applies to all pedals and amps. The more distorted the sound, the louder it has to be in order to be heard through the mix. I think Cary once provided a link to the scientific explanation.

[bobbymack]

Oy vey, I didn't do too well in Physics. Had it at the end of the day in high school, after 7th Period Study which often turned into a "smoke break"...

[hardheartedbill]

I know exactly what you mean. I think it's when there is too much distortion/gain and not enough "headroom " at the input stage of the amp. It's like it compresses the signal so much that instead of a boost you get a limiting effect.

[Craig S]

Lack of mids sometimes. I read an iterview with Jerry Donahue once were he said most playes e.q. for a tone that sounds great when they are playing by themselves. He said his stand alone tone is horrible but is set up to sound good with the band. I suspect that a distored tone due to the nature of the frequecies gets squashed by yhe other instruments.

[HamerHokie]

I never had that problem with the Fulltone Fat Boost, but it tends to accentuate the low mids.

An EQ pedal is a good way to overcome this, if you can figure out a way to engage it only when you hit the overdrive. Set the EQ to boost the appropriate midrange frequencies.

[sirDaniel]

a rangemaster does not have that problem.

[mrhappy]

Bob,

Two things come to mind.

"Loss of volume"... This can occur when the input volume of the amp itself isn't up high enough to cause the amp to "wake up". On a Fender for example, the amp doesn't "wake up" until you get the volume control up past 3- 3 1/2 or so. Below the "wake up" threshhold a boost/OD pedal (even with its vol maxed) can result in a level decrease.

"Lost in the mix".... This may be a seperate issue ... caused by an overly distorted/saturated sound. As far as distorted guitar sound go, there comes a point of diminishing returns... for me this occurs around the vicinity of a cranked vintage style Marshall. Beyond that the sound starts to gradually become thinner and thinner as the level of distortion increases.

The best way to experience this is when listening to a multi guitar player band where there will be one guy playin' away with tons of chops and gobs of distortion but you can't really hear what the hell he's playing then it get's handed off to the other guy, no chops and no distortion to speak of but his guitar sounds bigger and clear and in comparison makes "Mr. Distortion's" guitar sound like a swarm of angry bees!LOL