Tailpiece and bridge height adjustment question

[CraigP]

I recently have become obsessed with the height relationship between the bridge and the stop tailpiece on my Epiphone Les Paul and my Gibson Explorer. It also has me wondering about my Hamer Vector. Here is the issue: I have seen a ton of discussion on other boards that states that it is really, really bad when your strings come off the bridge and touch the back of the bridge on the way to the tailpiece. It seems like this is mostly a conversation for Les Paul players who go to great lengths to avoid this (e.g. top wrapping the tailpiece, etc...). Now on my Epiphone Les Paul, the high E string did touch the bridge and I raised the tailpiece to eliminate that -- not sure if it changed the tone at all. But on my Gibson Explorer -- all six strings touch the back of the bridge as it exits towards the tailpiece; and on my Hamer Vector, all the strings also touch the back of the bridge (no tailpiece of course here, as it is strung through the body).

What are the opinions of HFCers? Do strings touching the back of the bridge have a deleterious effect on tone? Weird harmonics?? Or does it just put more stress on strings, leading to more breakage? I don't have string breakage issues, even with lots of bending. If it is bad, is there a solution on the Vector? On the Explorer, the tailpiece is already fairly high, so top wrapping might be the only solution there. I apologize if this topic has already been beaten to death.

[murkat]

consider a guitar bridge, be it a Gibson type setup, ABR or TOM, like a stringed instruments bridge (violin, cello, etc.)

Transmission of string vibration without deviance to the soundboard, top of the instrument is a key factor to this.

So, initial contact of string to bridge saddle should just be that. Any other contact could render un welcome results.

keeping the strings off the back side of a bridge focuses the string energy to the saddle, to the bridge, to the posts,

to the sound board (guitar body). The tail piece also transmits residual string energy as well.

This is why there are factors involved in types of bridges, weights of tail pieces, etc. that yield certain tone combinations with different types of woods.

Putting additional string pressure stress on the back side of a bridge kills the focus of energy as well.

Les Paul types with poor carved tops and or high neck pitch suffer greatly when the strings ride the back side.

Either you have to "top load" the tail piece, or jack up the tail piece so ridiculously high that you loose all that you would be trying to achieve.

I top load my tail piece guitars. Keeps the strings off the back side, gives me about 1/2" additional total string length.

I hear a difference. I understand the physics of. I apply

[CraigP]

Thanks Murkat. That is the best and most complete explanation on this subject that I have ever heard. Sounds like top wrapping the Explorer is in the works. What is the solution for my Hamer Korina Vector??? All the strings hit the back of the bridge on the way into the body. The action is already set pretty low, so the bridge itself can't go down any further. This must be an issue for all Vectors??

[murkat]

all three of my explorers/ standards top loaded.

Not much you can do with the V... is an inherited trait to be somewhat close to a vintage spec instrument.

changing the TOM for a modified ABR-1 (I do this and have ) to the TOM posts may do it, and an added bonus,

the abr will give you some note definition as well compared to the TOM. again, depends on the factors previously mentioned.

[CraigP]

Thanks. So I take it that even the current $12,000 Gibson Flying Vs (and Albert's original) all have the strings hitting the back of the bridge? My Vector is very resonant as it is, I can only imagine what it would sound like with a more direct connection. What kind of modified ABR-1 do you use? It is still a "string through" right? Or do you add a tailpiece as well?

[murkat]

the current reissue V's have ABR's on them. ABR's are "slimmer" than a TOM bridge.

I modify OEM Gibson ABR's to fit TOM posts.

couple quick pix of my 83 Korina setup.

[CraigP]

I would love to know exactly how you modified a Gibson ABR to fit the TOM posts. This might be a mod I would to do if it is not crazy difficult.

[murkat]

not crazy diff. just ream out the post holes from the bottom, to fit the TOM posts.

Be careful not too chip out the plating when boring out.

[Lockbody]

Callaham also makes conversion studs which press in so you can use an ABR bridge.

[CraigP]

Thanks guys. Murkat -- what do you use to ream out the post holes on the ABR? I would hate to start drilling away...

Lockbody -- does the Callahan Nashville stud conversion kit work on the TOM posts? If so, he says that they only work with his ABR bridge (which doesnt seem to come in gold which is the finish on my Vector).

[murkat]

I boar it out with a sized drill bit starting from the bottom, and stop short of the top not to break the plating.

or

placing the TOM post in a drill, using it like a lathe, applying a fine file to the post shaft while in rotation.

[Lockbody]

Lockbody -- does the Callahan Nashville stud conversion kit work on the TOM posts? If so, he says that they only work with his ABR bridge (which doesnt seem to come in gold which is the finish on my Vector).

Oops, I guess not. I bought the Callaham ABR (which is a great piece, BTW), so that was something I didn't have to worry about. Sorry 'bout that.

[tbonesullivan]

I usually adjust the stop tail height to where the strings JUST clear the back of the bridge. I have pretty much only Nashville style bridges. The stop tail on my Newport I believe is bottomed out, as it is far enough away that even bottomed out it's got room to spare.

[Scottcrud]

Murkat, didn't you work for Gibson at one time?

[murkat]

Murkat, didn't you work for Gibson at one time?

7 years Gibson Custom Shop div. , Pro Shop department.

Prior to that

7+ years Gibson Corp., FMIC, (and many other) Service /warranty repair.

Benching way before certifications.

[Scottcrud]

Very cool. I have a specific question for you then, that applies to the topic. I've got an SG Standard, for the first time I've wrapped the strings around the top of the stop piece and tightened the stop piece to the body. Why have I never seen 1 gibson in a store come with the strings wrapped this way the way I have them/ i.e. the way you have them on your explorer?