Kahler Flyer (2330) on 1987 Scarab II

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

Hi Folks,

I am new here on the HFC-forums. I am from Germany and bought a 1987 Hamer Scarab II Sammy Hagar SIgnature. I searched actually pretty long for that guitar (original slamer pickups etc.) and found it last year on ebay germany. I know that Scarabs are actually more easy to get in the US but in Germany they are rare and I had to pay much more then you would pay in the US. But the guitar is in a pretty good condition and has actually no fretwear.

So this guitar has a Kahler Flyer Trem installed and the seller did no good setup regarding the string-height etc. I found this setupguide for the trem: http://www.carvinmuseum.com/decade/images/kahlerflyer.html . Compared to the new Kahlertrems the intonation-screws are not on top, they are actually in front under the rollers. The instructionguide tells that there is a philipsscrew but right now I can hardly tell what kind of philipsscrew it is and which kind of screwdriver I might need! Does anybody of you own the same trem and can share this expertize with me?

Also what is your experience with the truss rod on this guitar? My brother wants to test if it is still ok and not broken. The neck itself is right now in the right position and not warped. Can you recommend this?

I am not that experiences with guitarsetups but we have no good local stores here and I don't want to screw the guitar in a bad way.

looking forward to your answers

best regards from Germany

[Andrew]

Post a pic of your trem and we can help.

The Flyer wasn't used by Hamer, the type used was like the current 2300 pro series. It is possible that it is retro fitted so we need to see it.

Or check here:

http://www.glowingtubes.com/p/Kahler_Instructions.htm

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

What do you mean with "The flyer wasn't used by hamer"? So even if that guitar was custom-ordered (or kind of that) the customers would not have been able to choose the flyer?

I have to make my own photos later.... but here is one of the auction I bought the guitar from!

and one of the whole guitar.... I actually never saw that kind of sammy hagar signature on any of the old hamer advertisings. Only saw the blackred one....

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

I mean the guitar seems all original. It has a tummycut (unlike the Scarab XT). And it has a 718674 serialnumber... which should be from 1987. The trem seems pretty original and like you see it is not equal to the newer kahlers or the pro because (like I said) the intonation screws are on the front under the rollers (like in the carvin-museum guide). So if the original trem was replaced it has to be long ago? but why would somebody do that? The KahlerPro does not match my trem. It is a flyer! but why did Hamer not use it?

[Andrew]

I am guessing that fixing screw holes are the same place for both the Flyer and the Pro and that the spring rout is in the same place, too. So an easy swap.

Might be custom ordered with a Flyer but I doubt the factory records will have that level of information.

As an aside, the basic Chaparral was originally with a Kahler Fulcrum and not a Floyd. So Hamer were keen on Kahler's products.

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

I have seen your website... you have like all original Hamer-Adverts from back then. Do you know where this 1987 Sammy Hagar Signature comes from, as it has not Advertising anywhere?

Do you own a scarab? Or do you know anybody on this board who is an experienced user and owns a scarab!?

Btw. back to topic? anybody with Kahler Flyer experience??? ;-)

and thanks a lot for your help!

[Andrew]

As I said, Hamers usually have the Pro so I don't have the expertise to help with the Flyer.

Your guitar is in every respect (except the Flyer and the signature) a basic Scarab II that Hamer made from 1984 through to 1988. A few had Blitz headstocks and upgrades like ebony boards with boomers or crowns.

Serial will correct me here but I recollect that a similar or this guitar was given away in a competition or lottery.

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

Thanks,

yeah I did not mean that this guitar is some "super-special" Scarab. I am happy to have found this scarab with the original pickups anyway. I know for you in the US it is no big deal to get hands on a scarab. But here they are hard to get and ordering from the US can be a pain in the ass because of our customs in germany and their huge knifes ;-) !

Let's see if other users can help... I remember that I read about some other users having a kahler flyer. I already also contacted Kahler.. let's see if they might get back on me. It's simply about the intonation and the related screw.

best regards

[kizanski]

yeah I did not mean that this guitar is some "super-special" Scarab.

I think the Hammy Sagar signature makes it pretty rare.

First one I've seen.

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

"Hammy Sagar"? Was that sarcasm? ;-)

Well I only know that the quality of the guitar is really awesome and it is in a real good condition for a 1987 guitar. Right now only worrying about the screws for intonation.... I hope Kahler will give an answer.

Come on Boys... any Kahler Flyer owners? ;-)

and regarding the tuss-rod ... I read on the web that scarab are more sensible regarding the neck? anything true about that?

[murkat]

" So this guitar has a Kahler Flyer Trem installed and the seller did no good setup regarding the string-height etc. I found this setupguide for the trem: http://www.carvinmus...ahlerflyer.html . Compared to the new Kahlertrems the intonation-screws are not on top, they are actually in front under the rollers. The instructionguide tells that there is a philipsscrew but right now I can hardly tell what kind of philipsscrew it is and which kind of screwdriver I might need! Does anybody of you own the same trem and can share this expertize with me? "

well, the website hilighted is good info.

Like any other trem to intonate, there are a few varibles to consider when achieving intonation.

A. when you lower or increase height to the string, the saddle will move in a ark or not in a true staight up/down motion.

So when you set the height, you will also have to move the saddle back or forth to compensate. This will take time to do on each one.

Example~ (If tonation is corrsect) when string is too low, adjust saddle higher, but you will have to move saddle forward to compensate for the ark to put back into tonation. This will be time consuming, but eventually worth it.

Hamer truss rods, adjustment, necks, etc. are all pretty much the same, Like a Les paul. thickness of neck and string size will dictate how much tension you will need to achive a straight neck to your likeing with or without neck relief.

The Flyer is a good bridge. Take your time with it and you will get it, just one string at a time! then move to the next.

Heavy springs a must for Kahlers, unless you like the stock butter spongy wobble

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

hey murkat,

thanks! Well I am simply right now looking for precise info about the screw on the flyer which is related to adjust intonation.... because it is under the rollers it is hard to see without unmounting the whole trem (gap between humbucker and trem is not that big). I just need to know which screwdriver I need. Don't wanna fuck up the screws by using the wrong while testing which size! I only can tell they are very small!

[murkat]

well, the website says a phillips screw driver. that is inncorect info.

Should be an Allen heads screw just like the up/d down allen screws on each side of the roller.

And knowing Kahler, the Allen key size "shloud be" the same size of the up/down allen screws.

Here is a good pic of one~

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kahler-Flyer-Tremolo-A605-/130644108719?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1e6afee5af

[cmatthes]

The Kahler "Flyer" unit was their budget model, which is one of the reasons you wouldn't find one stock on a Hamer. Hamer used the Pro Series versions and Floyds, and had a set charge to add those early on, and they became standard by the mid-80s. I'm not saying it would be impossible to find a Flyer Trem on a Scarab, but it is pretty unlikely that's a stock unit.

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

Ok an Allen heads screw makes actually more sense than a philipsscrw. Thanks a lot murkat!

[murkat]

^ i totally agree.

but that flyer looks like it been there for some time.

Only way to find out is popping it off.

the screw pattern and bottom plate between the two types will be different and revealing.

But the flyer looks stock from the close up pick

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

The Kahler "Flyer" unit was their budget model, which is one of the reasons you wouldn't find one stock on a Hamer. Hamer used the Pro Series versions and Floyds, and had a set charge to add those early on, and they became standard by the mid-80s. I'm not saying it would be impossible to find a Flyer Trem on a Scarab, but it is pretty unlikely that's a stock unit.

Well possibly it was added by the former owner, but who would then actually exchange a kahler pro with a kahler flyer? I just wanted a scarab and buying in USA was back then no option for me. Everything on the guitar seems actually pretty much original and the trem is matching the hardware-color. So I don't really have a clue. But as some of you confirmed this specific guitar seems to be kind of "different" (not better...) as it did not even get advertisings. I bought it from a seller in munich online on ebay and the guitar did not seem to have been used that much. The photos also don't reflect the color that well as it is more a cherry-red...darker then on the photos. Well the flyer works well and just needs adjustment.

^ i totally agree. but that flyer looks like it been there for some time. Only way to find out is popping it off. the screw pattern and bottom plate between the two types will be different and revealing. But the flyer looks stock from the close up pick

So I have a frankenstein-guitar? hehehe

Well it seems all matching... maybe it was ordered like that back then. Which disadvantage does the Flyer have compared to the Pro (except the easier adjustment on the Pro)?

[zenmindbeginner]

That sure is a beauty! Yeah, the Flyer needs to go and a Pro put in it's place, if that's in yer budget. Those necks are skinny and are three piece mahogany if I'm correct. Mine has .012 gauge strings on it but is tuned down to C#, so they truss rod is pretty sturdy.

The neck broke slap in two back after I'd only had it for a few months (1987 in standard tuning) and I got the factory to put on a whole new neck... I did have it come off of the strap and fall like a brick to the floor after having it only a few weeks, so it wasn't a defect or anything.

Since the neck is so skinny and is mahogany, tuning isn't the greatest on these things... although I never widened the nut slots to account for the larger diameter of the .012 strings.

The cut out body shape of these things removes enough mahogany for the attack, sustain and warmth to stay balanced without becoming too dark. The Hamer Slammer pickups provide Scarabs with a unique sound that is full bodied, yet lean enough to have a good slice and cut. Very unique pickups with the power and juice of a JB coupled with the clarity and tight low end of the Custom... quite special indeed.

I think that they are sexy as all get out and you have a wonderful and cherry specimen on your hands. Congratulations.

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

Why is the value of the scarabs actually that low? I guess they were cheap back then? How much in USD (ok USD today is hard to compare to USD back then) did they cost? Were they low-end guitars of Hamer back then? I found some info that they cost a lot but actually if I look at the prices of last year on ebay I cannot believe that anymore.

That sure is a beauty! Yeah, the Flyer needs to go and a Pro put in it's place, if that's in yer budget.

Where do I get a Kahler Pro from the 80s which might match the hardware color of my guitar? It would not match the mountingholes I guess? Actually I don't wanna drill new holes into the guitar! ;-)

[murkat]

Kahler pro types are more machined type parts.

Flyer is a a more budget inclined, more cast metal parts.

I think you find the flyer good once set up and installed a pair of heavy springs

edit to add, scarab is just not that all popular, hence the value of. Not in high demand.

Not saying there is anything wrong with a scarab. Just about any Hamer around here is a great guitar!

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

I think you find the flyer good once set up and installed a pair of heavy springs

Well as I said, I am pretty much satified with the flyer. Just asked for the difference as I never haven gotten hands on a Pro!

edit to add, scarab is just not that all popular, hence the value of. Not in high demand.

Not saying there is anything wrong with a scarab. Just about any Hamer around here is a great guitar!

Well how much did a new one cost back then! I also found something strange on the web! A 1996 Hamer Scarab (not for sale...sadly!):

http://www.tuneyoursound.com/collection/hamer-scarab-1996-played-glenn-tipton-and-sammy-hagar

Is it actually still possible today to get the scarabshape from the Hamer-customshop (as they say only listed models can be ordered)? I am a big fan of the shape!

[zenmindbeginner]

Well how much did a new one cost back then! I also found something strange on the web! A 1996 Hamer Scarab (not for sale...sadly!):

http://www.tuneyours...and-sammy-hagar

Is it actually still possible today to get the scarabshape from the Hamer-customshop (as they say only listed models can be ordered)? I am a big fan of the shape!

Most of the templates got destroyed but they might still have a scarab one left around.

The were $699 or so retail back in 1987 so they've seen a 50% or so depreciation which isn't all that unusual.

Rick Allen and Jack Blades played the bass and Fernando Von Arb was the only guitarist who played one consistently despite Sammy Hagar playing one for a tiny period in his career (he played his Scarab very little).

Not a lot there to grab hold of. I picked mine out of a music store that had all of the class of 1985 lining the walls 'cause I thought that it looked the sexiest... I almost got the pink and black zulu model. lolz.

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

Well you will kill me if I tell you how much I paid.... ;-) .... I had no clue that they were that cheap, because actually in my point of view the quality is awesome especially compared to modern guitars in that pricerange!

[cmatthes]

Rick Allen and Jack Blades played the bass.

Rick Allen had/has the absolute WORST left hand technique. Almost like he was missing that entire arm!

[Christos_Sotiropoulos]

At least the guitarist of Def Leppard had a Kahler mounted on this Les Paul... Kahler Pro! Hehe

[zenmindbeginner]

Rick Allen and Jack Blades played the bass.

Rick Allen had/has the absolute WORST left hand technique. Almost like he was missing that entire arm!

Oops! I think meant to say Savage... too many Ricks! Thanx man.