Attention Vinyl Lovers: Phono Cartridge Recommendation

[JohnnyB]

There is a high end cartridge maker in Japan named Shelter. They specialize in high end low output moving coil cartridges that range from $1295 to $4900. Taking pity on us peons, Shelter also offers a high output moving magnet cartridge called the Shelter 201. This lowly simple overachiever has caught the ears of the high end audio press. The Absolute Sound has awarded the 201 the Product of the Year for 2015 and an Editor's Choice award for 2016. The retail in the USA from authorized vendors is $310. However, you can pick up this gem from Japanese eBay vendors for a mere $167 or so. Although the 201 bears a striking resemblance to the $129 Sumiko Pearl, they are definitely different cartridges. Check the angle and thickness of the stylus and cantilever of the two models. The Shelter has a longer and thinner cantilever and tinier stylus. These translate to faster transient response and better detail retrieval. Based on its performance, I suspect that its magnetic structure and coil windings are different and better as well. Unlike typical high performance moving magnet cartridges, somehow the 201 exhibits none of that inductance-induced high treble rise and glare.

    

Sure, they use the same cartridge body, probably mass-produced by a third party, but that's where the similarity ends. It's not that the Pearl is a bad cartridge for $129; it's just that for $310, and especially for $167, the Shelter 210 is phenomenal.

I took delivery on my Shelter 201 a week ago. I've spent a lot of time breaking it in and getting a handle on its strengths and weaknesses. I have played a wide variety of recordings with it--large orchestral spectalculars, intimate voice and piano, solo Debussy classical piano, Baroque ensembles, Eddy Arnold Nashville country, acoustic bluegrass, Miles Davis Kind of Blue, Diana Krall with jazz trio, Tony Bennett with jazz ensembles, Frank Sinatra with Nelson Riddle, direct-to-disk big band, small group jazz,1960s Al Hirt, Dire Straits, The Doors, Vaughan Williams 20th Century British impressionistic/romantic, and on and on. Like I said, everything I could throw at it in a week. Tomorrow I'll try some Billy Idol/Steve Stevens to make sure it handles everything.

Everything I've played on it sounds like the cartridge was designed for that kind of music. That's a pretty good indicator that it's extremely linear. If there were colorations, some genres would excel and others would suck. So far nothing has sucked and everything has sounded captivating and involving. It's the fifth cartridge I've owned since getting into vinyl 9 years ago and it really impresses me. In addition to its timbral accuracy, it's addictively dynamic with an impressive 3D soundstage and imaging. 

I think just about every vinyl enthusiast should own a Shelter 201 and here's why: 

For those who are accustomed to low output moving coil cartridges that cost 4 figures and above, there comes a time when you have to send the cartridge to a microscopic specialist to put a new stylus on the cantilever. This is expensive and can take months. I often see posts from such owners asking for advice on what inexpensive cartidge to buy to see them through the dry spell. The Shelter 201 should be the one. Some of these users are also frustrated by the noise levels they get from their expensive tube phono stages when trying to add so much gain to cartridges with an output of .02mV.

The Shelter 201 has an output of at least 4.0mV. When I slipped it into my system I had to dial the gain w-a-a-y down to get the volume in line. And when I did, the noise floor dropped like a stone. This in turn improved the dynamic range, and my big band and orchestral showpiece spectaculars had peaks and crescendos that knocked me around the room. This cartridge is dynamic yet smooth, with very realistic timbres, great timing and rhythm--pretty much anything you could ask for.

Now, if you're a low-budget schlub this cartridge is for you, too. Any decent entry-level cartridge is going to run $100-129 or so. And while the official retail of the Shelter 201 is a fairly stiff jump to $310, at $167 for a grey market unit it's a reasonable step up, especially considering what a step up it is in performance. It's also inexpensive to own. My Audio Technica AT150MLX retails around $339 to $499. The replacement stylus ranges from $258 to $325. The replacement stylus for the Shelter 201 is $100--even from authorized US dealers. 

So there you have it: excellent tracker, comprehensive truth of timbre, excellent sense of timing and rhythm, very dynamic. available for $167 and stylus replaceable for $100. Most important, very musically involving and satisfying on pretty much any music you play with it. What's not to like?

 

 

 

 

[HSB0531]

7 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

There is a high end cartridge maker in Japan named Shelter. They specialize in high end low output moving coil cartridges that range from $1295 to $4900. Taking pity on us peons, Shelter also offers a high output moving magnet cartridge called the Shelter 201. This lowly simple overachiever has caught the ears of the high end audio press. The Absolute Sound has awarded the 201 the Product of the Year for 2015 and an Editor's Choice award for 2016. The retail in the USA from authorized vendors is $310. However, you can pick up this gem from Japanese eBay vendors for a mere $167 or so. Although the 201 bears a striking resemblance to the $129 Sumiko Pearl, they are definitely different cartridges. Check the angle and thickness of the stylus and cantilever of the two models. The Shelter has a longer and thinner cantilever and tinier stylus. These translate to faster transient response and better detail retrieval. Based on its performance, I suspect that its magnetic structure and coil windings are different and better as well. Unlike typical high performance moving magnet cartridges, somehow the 201 exhibits none of that inductance-induced high treble rise and glare.

    

Sure, they use the same cartridge body, probably mass-produced by a third party, but that's where the similarity ends. It's not that the Pearl is a bad cartridge for $129; it's just that for $310, and especially for $167, the Shelter 210 is phenomenal.

I took delivery on my Shelter 201 a week ago. I've spent a lot of time breaking it in and getting a handle on its strengths and weaknesses. I have played a wide variety of recordings with it--large orchestral spectalculars, intimate voice and piano, solo Debussy classical piano, Baroque ensembles, Eddy Arnold Nashville country, acoustic bluegrass, Miles Davis Kind of Blue, Diana Krall with jazz trio, Tony Bennett with jazz ensembles, Frank Sinatra with Nelson Riddle, direct-to-disk big band, small group jazz,1960s Al Hirt, Dire Straits, The Doors, Vaughan Williams 20th Century British impressionistic/romantic, and on and on. Like I said, everything I could throw at it in a week. Tomorrow I'll try some Billy Idol/Steve Stevens to make sure it handles everything.

Everything I've played on it sounds like the cartridge was designed for that kind of music. That's a pretty good indicator that it's extremely linear. If there were colorations, some genres would excel and others would suck. So far nothing has sucked and everything has sounded captivating and involving. It's the fifth cartridge I've owned since getting into vinyl 9 years ago and it really impresses me. In addition to its timbral accuracy, it's addictively dynamic with an impressive 3D soundstage and imaging. 

I think just about every vinyl enthusiast should own a Shelter 201 and here's why: 

For those who are accustomed to low output moving coil cartridges that cost 4 figures and above, there comes a time when you have to send the cartridge to a microscopic specialist to put a new stylus on the cantilever. This is expensive and can take months. I often see posts from such owners asking for advice on what inexpensive cartidge to buy to see them through the dry spell. The Shelter 201 should be the one. Some of these users are also frustrated by the noise levels they get from their expensive tube phono stages when trying to add so much gain to cartridges with an output of .02mV.

The Shelter 201 has an output of at least 4.0mV. When I slipped it into my system I had to dial the gain w-a-a-y down to get the volume in line. And when I did, the noise floor dropped like a stone. This in turn improved the dynamic range, and my big band and orchestral showpiece spectaculars had peaks and crescendos that knocked me around the room. This cartridge is dynamic yet smooth, with very realistic timbres, great timing and rhythm--pretty much anything you could ask for.

Now, if you're a low-budget schlub this cartridge is for you, too. Any decent entry-level cartridge is going to run $100-129 or so. And while the official retail of the Shelter 201 is a fairly stiff jump to $310, at $167 for a grey market unit it's a reasonable step up, especially considering what a step up it is in performance. It's also inexpensive to own. My Audio Technica AT150MLX retails around $339 to $499. The replacement stylus ranges from $258 to $325. The replacement stylus for the Shelter 201 is $100--even from authorized US dealers. 

So there you have it: excellent tracker, comprehensive truth of timbre, excellent sense of timing and rhythm, very dynamic. available for $167 and stylus replaceable for $100. Most important, very musically involving and satisfying on pretty much any music you play with it. What's not to like?

 

 

 

 

JohnnyB:

I haven't read this yet, but thanks ahead of the time.

Im at the point where I need to look into cartridges and the input and critiques help in figuring out what to buy and why.

[HSB0531]

Two questions:

1) Have you ever tried Grado cartridges and your opinion.

2) Can you recommend a good cartridge with a 78rpm stylus.

I have to go through a pile of old 78 rpm jazz recordings both store bought and original master disks.

My main concern is not damaging them.

[JohnnyB]

11 hours ago, HSB0531 said:

Two questions:

1) Have you ever tried Grado cartridges and your opinion.

2) Can you recommend a good cartridge with a 78rpm stylus.

I have to go through a pile of old 78 rpm jazz recordings both store bought and original master disks.

My main concern is not damaging them.

I had a top-of-the-line Grado from 1976-1980 or so. Wish I'd bought the replacement stylus instead of tossing it. It was magic. It was their top-of-the-line at $150 (equiv. to $635 today). It was incredible, not only being rich and musical, but extracting a luscious 3D soundstage and imaging you could even sense in another room in the house. The current Grados get good reviews, especially their wood-bodied line. 

Fortunately, there are still some excellent and reasonably priced 78 rpm cartridges. Here is LP Gear's selection. As you can see, there are two by Grado. The more expensive one ($150) has a 4-piece cantilever (for breaking up resonances) and the $90 has a 3-piece cantilever. Actually, you couldn't go wrong with any of the offerings listed on that page. The Audio Technica would be nice but you can get a better price from Amazon. I got the Mono LP version of this Audio Technica cartridge via Amazon storefront and I'm very pleased with both the transaction (from Japan) and the product.

You'd also be fine with any of the others on that page. The LP Gear brand is an Audio Technica with a 78 stylus, and Shure and Ortofon are always good, too. If you're predisposed to Grado, by all means get one. 

[HSB0531]

2 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

I had a top-of-the-line Grado from 1976-1980 or so. Wish I'd bought the replacement stylus instead of tossing it. It was magic. It was their top-of-the-line at $150 (equiv. to $635 today). It was incredible, not only being rich and musical, but extracting a luscious 3D soundstage and imaging you could even sense in another room in the house. The current Grados get good reviews, especially their wood-bodied line. 

Fortunately, there are still some excellent and reasonably priced 78 rpm cartridges. Here is LP Gear's selection. As you can see, there are two by Grado. The more expensive one ($150) has a 4-piece cantilever (for breaking up resonances) and the $90 has a 3-piece cantilever. Actually, you couldn't go wrong with any of the offerings listed on that page. The Audio Technica would be nice but you can get a better price from Amazon. I got the Mono LP version of this Audio Technica cartridge via Amazon storefront and I'm very pleased with both the transaction (from Japan) and the product.

You'd also be fine with any of the others on that page. The LP Gear brand is an Audio Technica with a 78 stylus, and you Shure and Ortofon are always good, too. If you're predisposed to Grado, by all means get one. 

Excellent, thank you!

And I didn't even think about the mono situation

Can you use a stereo 78 cartridge stylus on a mono recording and vicaversa? 

[JohnnyB]

22 hours ago, HSB0531 said:

And I didn't even think about the mono situation

Can you use a stereo 78 cartridge stylus on a mono recording and vicaversa? 

There's no such thing as a stereo 78 cartridge. 78s are a whole different trip from LPs:

• First of all, they're not vinyl; they're shellac over a substrate--laminated paper or something similar, I think.
• You can clean vinyl with isopropryl alcohol, but it'll melt shellac.
• You must have a 78 stylus for a 78 rpm record, period. when LPs were released, they were sometimes referred to as "microgroove" because the groove is much narrower than that of a 78. The average groove length of a 12" LP is around 1400 feet. That's a narrow groove.
• Therefore, you must only use the much wider 78 stylus on a 78, and never use it on a 45 or 12" LP.
• Mono cartridges are great on mono LPs. They reveal great focus, clarity and dyamics and a lower noise floor because they don't read the vertical track or the floor of the groove. Old mono records that seem unlistenably noisy with a stereo cartridge can be dead quiet with a mono cartridge. This is my experience with several mono thrift shop records that I played once and put away because they were so noisy. When I got a mono LP cartridge last September I tried those noisy mono LPs again, and to my surprise and delight, they were quiet, sometimes sounding like new.

You can use a stereo cartridge on a mono LP because they're both microgroove. You can use a modern mono cartridge on a stereo LP because they're compliant both horizontally and vertically, but you lose the L-R tracks because they're wired to only read the mono track. If you use an old style mono cartridge, the stylus can only move side-to-side, which is the mono track. Its lack of compliance in the vertical plane can ruin the vertical L-R groove of a stereo LP.

[HSB0531]

36 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

There's no such thing as a stereo 78 cartridge. 78s are a whole different trip from LPs.

First of all, they're not vinyl; they're shellac over a substrate (laminated paper or something, I think.

You can clean vinyl with isopropryl alcohol, but it'll melt shellac.

You must have a 78 stylus for a 78 rpm record, period. when LPs were released, they were sometimes referred to as "microgroove" because the groove is much narrower than that of a 78. The average groove length of a 12" LP is around 1400 feet. That's a narrow groove.

Therefore, you must have only use a 78 stylus on a 78, and never use it on a 45 or 12" LP.

Mono cartridges are great on mono records. They reveal great focus, clarity and dyamics and a lower noise floor because they don't read the vertical track or the floor of the groove. Old mono records that seem unlistenably noisy with a stereo cartridge can be dead quiet with a mono cartridge.

You can use a stereo cartridge on a mono LP because they're both microgroove. You can use a modern mono cartridge on a stereo LP, but you lose the L-R tracks. If you use an old style mono cartridge, the stylus can only move side-to-side, which is the mono track. Its lack of compliance in the vertical plane can ruin the vertical L-R groove of a stereo LP.

Damn glad I asked the question.

I would have cleaned them and destroyed them.

I do feel stupid about the stereo question though.

I Used to know that mono & stereo LP's were vinyl.

I didn't know however why mono records sounded better with a mono cartridge/stylus.

Thanks Johnny.

[Disturber]

How would you rate the Shelter 201 compared to the Grado Prestige Gold?   

[JohnnyB]

12 hours ago, Disturber said:

How would you rate the Shelter 201 compared to the Grado Prestige Gold?   

I owned a premium Grado in the 70s, but not the Grado Gold. I've read several reviews, however. Generally the Grado, having unusually high stereo separation, is known for throwing a large and dimensional soundstage. This can be addicting. It also has a fullsome bass. Downsides are that it's known to be a bit grainy, it's highly compliant so it can have tracking problems with medium-to-high mass tonearms, and there are certain turntables (such as the Regas) that--if the motor is under the platter--the Grado Prestiges start putting out a hum the closer they get to the TT spindle. Here's a 9-cartridge comparison that includes the Grado Prestige Gold 1. What Michael Fremer writes here is pretty much in line with the strengths and weaknesses of the Grado. Also, if you go here, you'll find 18 user reviews, including many 5-star ratings and a few 1-stars from disappointed buyers. On the downside, here's a professional and mildly critical review of the Grado Gold.

What I know about the Shelter 201 is that it's neutral without being dull at all. It also has good stereo imaging (better than I've been hearing through my two regular cartridges) and a full enough bass that on some LPs I turn off my subwoofers (which only go down to around 36 Hz). The Grado isn't known for being the most dynamic cart out there while my Shelter can knock you around the room with crescendos and sforzandos. I also like that the Shelter has excellent treble detail and extension without being shrill in the slightest. Here are 9 user reviews of the Shelter 201. You'll notice that the strengths are pretty consistent from reviewer to reviewer and also align with my own impressions.

Of course, YMMV based on cartridge setup (overhang, vertical tracking force, and vertical tracking angle), tonearm effective mass, and capacitive load (about 100-200 pF preferred). 

Also bear in mind that at retail, the Grado Gold is $260 and the 201 is $310, so those are sort of competitive. If you get the Shelter 201 from a Japanese vendor for $167 USD (149.28 Euros), it's a no-brainer in favor of the Shelter, especially when you consider that the replacement stylus is only $100 vs. $150 for the Grado stylus. 

[HSB0531]

4 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

I owned a premium Grado in the 70s, but not the Grado Gold. I've read several reviews, however. Generally the Grado, having unusually high stereo separation, is known for throwing a large and dimensional soundstage. This can be addicting. It also has a fullsome bass. Downsides are that it's known to be a bit grainy, it's highly compliant so it can have tracking problems with medium-to-high mass tonearms, and there are certain turntables (such as the Regas) that--if the motor is under the platter--the Grado Prestiges start putting out a hum the closer they get to the TT spindle. Here's a 9-cartridge comparison that includes the Grado Prestige Gold 1. What Michael Fremer writes here is pretty much in line with the strengths and weaknesses of the Grado. Also, if you go here, you'll find 18 user reviews, including many 5-star ratings and a few 1-stars from disappointed buyers. On the downside, here's a professional and mildly critical review of the Grado Gold.

What I know about the Shelter 201 is that it's neutral without being dull at all. It also has good stereo imaging (better than I've been hearing through my two regular cartridges) and a full enough bass that on some LPs I turn off my subwoofers (which only go down to around 36 Hz). The Grado isn't known for being the most dynamic cart out there while my Shelter can knock you around the room with crescendos and sforzandos. I also like that the Shelter has excellent treble detail and extension without being shrill in the slightest. Here are 9 user reviews of the Shelter 201. You'll notice that the strengths are pretty consistent from reviewer to reviewer and also align with my own impressions.

Of course, YMMV based on cartridge setup (overhang, vertical tracking force, and vertical tracking angle), tonearm effective mass, and capacitive load (about 100-200 pF preferred). 

Also bear in mind that at retail, the Grado Gold is $260 and the 201 is $310, so those are sort of competitive. If you get the Shelter 201 from a Japanese vendor for $167 USD (149.28 Euros), it's a no-brainer in favor of the Shelter, especially when you consider that the replacement stylus is only $100 vs. $150 for the Grado stylus. 

As much as like most anything Grado, I'm getting the impression that I'm going to be perfectly happy with the Shelter 201 from your review.

 

[JohnnyB]

1 hour ago, HSB0531 said:

As much as like most anything Grado, I'm getting the impression that I'm going to be perfectly happy with the Shelter 201 from your review.

I'm predisposed to like Grado too. I had that great experience in the '70s, and I still regularly use a pair of 15-yr-old RS60 headphones. However, the Shelter 201 has a unique set of attributes and minimal and almost undetectable flaws. If you go for a grey market one for $167, the risk is very low and at worst it would always be welcome to have around for a backup. By contrast, the Grado Gold has some very strong features and some obvious liabilities under certain circumstances (e.g., the hum thing). It's $93 more and the replacement stylus is $50 and 50% more. So yeah, playing the odds, if you go for the $167 grey market deal, you stand to gain more and risk less. 

I have owned and used a Shure M93E, M91ED, Grado Z1+, Shure M97xE, Ortofon OM10, Denon DL160, Audio Technica AT150MLX (rather deluxe MM cart with exotic design and materials), Audio Technica AT-MONO3/LP (for mono only), and the present Shelter 210. I consider the Shelter an excellent daily driver--reliable, rugged, cheap to own, and yet brings several sonic virtues to the table--truth of timbre and honest tonal balance being #1, plus great tracking, excellent stereo imaging, extended bass, notably honest and transparent midrange, smooth yet surprising treble resolution, great overall perspective (i.e., just right balance of midrange lead melody, inner detail vocals and harmonies, strong but not overpowering bass, treble that doesn't call attention to itself and yet sounds complete, and dynamics that can really surprise you. It somehow manages to be pleasant and yet grab your attention at the same time.

Also, could you refresh my memory concerning your current rig starting with the turntable and not forgetting the phono stage and preamp? Every cart has its limitations concerning compatibilities.

[Disturber]

9 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

I owned a premium Grado in the 70s, but not the Grado Gold. I've read several reviews, however. Generally the Grado, having unusually high stereo separation, is known for throwing a large and dimensional soundstage. This can be addicting. It also has a fullsome bass. Downsides are that it's known to be a bit grainy, it's highly compliant so it can have tracking problems with medium-to-high mass tonearms, and there are certain turntables (such as the Regas) that--if the motor is under the platter--the Grado Prestiges start putting out a hum the closer they get to the TT spindle. Here's a 9-cartridge comparison that includes the Grado Prestige Gold 1. What Michael Fremer writes here is pretty much in line with the strengths and weaknesses of the Grado. Also, if you go here, you'll find 18 user reviews, including many 5-star ratings and a few 1-stars from disappointed buyers. On the downside, here's a professional and mildly critical review of the Grado Gold.

 

I bought the Grado Gold for my back up turntable. I really like it, it works very well on that one. For some reason they cost only like 140 €uros here in Sweden. You get a lot of pickup for those money. Will keep the Shelter in mind. I will at some point soon need to re-tip my older Ortofon MC2 Super Cartridge.

[JohnnyB]

7 hours ago, Disturber said:

I bought the Grado Gold for my back up turntable. I really like it, it works very well on that one. For some reason they cost only like 140 €uros here in Sweden. You get a lot of pickup for those money. Will keep the Shelter in mind. I will at some point soon need to re-tip my older Ortofon MC2 Super Cartridge.

In that case, stick with the Grado Gold and get a replacement stylus as needed. You like what it does and there's no hum factor with your turntable. The MC 2 Super is out of production, right? Is it a high output moving coil cartridge? Does it look anything like one of these?

[HSB0531]

47 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

In that case, stick with the Grado Gold and get a replacement stylus as needed. You like what it does and there's no hum factor with your turntable. The MC 2 Super is out of production, right? Is it a high output moving coil cartridge? Does it look anything like one of these?

I was looking at the Grado Statement/Reference series Platinum 2 @ $330 or the Shelter 201 @ $325.

I wouldn't gamble on the grey market version of the Shelter, so the price difference is $5.00

The only concern I have is that the "wooden series" Grado does not have a replacement stylus.

I imagine it could be sent back to Grado for a replacement Stylus when needed.

But having the Shelter with an extra stylus is nice.

[JohnnyB]

1 hour ago, HSB0531 said:

I was looking at the Grado Statement/Reference series Platinum 2 @ $330 or the Shelter 201 @ $325.

I wouldn't gamble on the grey market version of the Shelter, so the price difference is $5.00

The only concern I have is that the "wooden series" Grado does not have a replacement stylus.

I imagine it could be sent back to Grado for a replacement Stylus when needed.

But having the Shelter with an extra stylus is nice.

Where are you shopping? So far in the US, everywhere I've looked (LP Gear, Music Direct, Needle Doctor, Audio Advisor, etc.) the Grado Reference Platinum 2 is $350, and the Shelter 201 (Needle Doctor, LP Gear) is $310. For the wood-bodied Grados, when the stylus wears out you send it back to Grado to get it retipped (just like with moving coil cartridges). For the Platinum, this runs $240. That's for a bonded elliptical stylus. Go one step up to the Sonata and a nude stylus, and the retip is $400. 

So, comparing cost of ownership of the cartridge (purchased from authorized USA dealers) plus one replacement stylus or retip, the Shelter 201 would cost $410 and the Grado Reference Platinum 2 would total $590. 

As for "grey market," I've bought two cartridges from Japanese vendors on eBay and both were excellent transactions--free and prompt shipping, item exactly as described, well-packed and in perfect condition. I bought the Shelter from this listing and you can check their 100% feedback. They don't offer returns but you're still protected by eBay's money back guarantee if the item is not as advertised. 46% lower price is pretty significant.

I also got a great high output moving coil mono cartridge off Amazon the same way. $112 instead of $189.99. The price fluctuates a bit owing (I suspect) to dollar-to-yen exchange rates. 

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to talk you into one cartridge vs. another, but am trying to even the playing field a little more in your decision making based on actual cost of ownership (plus my positive experiences buying direct from Japan). Instead of there being a $5 difference, there is a minimum $40 difference (not all that significant if you like the cartridge), but with the Japan connection it can be a $183 difference on initial purchase ($350 vs. $167) and a $323 difference between initial purchase plus one stylus replacement. There are plenty of good reasons to go for the Reference Platinum, as it comes very highly reviewed, but understand that it's not a $5 decision.

[HSB0531]

You're right.

$350. Not $330

But if you go direct it's free shipping:

http://www.4ourears.net/Grado_platinum_1_phono_cartridge_p/4e-platref2pc.htm

I agree with you on cost of ownership.

In the long run its cheaper buying the Shelter.

[JohnnyB]

3 hours ago, HSB0531 said:

You're right.

$350. Not $330

But if you go direct it's free shipping:

http://www.4ourears.net/Grado_platinum_1_phono_cartridge_p/4e-platref2pc.htm

I agree with you on cost of ownership.

In the long run its cheaper buying the Shelter.

My original rave was based on the Japan-direct price of $167. At that price it stands alone. The $350 segment, however, has many contenders:

• Grado Reference Platinum 2
• Audio Technica AT150MLX
• Audio Technica OC9ML/II (LOMC)
• LP Gear BIN 323 (HOMC)
• Denon DL-301 II (LOMC)
• Ortofon Quintet Red (LOMC)
• Music Hall Magic III
• Goldring 2300 ($375 at KABUSA.com; $550 elsewhere)
• Audio Technica F7 (LOMC) Or save $105 by getting it from Amazon.

... and so on. 

 

[mrjamiam]

For those of us (OK, maybe just me) who are not all that well-informed on mixing and matching componentry, is any cartridge pretty much interchangeable with any other?  That is, is there a standard that they comply with?  My ProJect Debut Carbon is still very new, but I suppose the day will come when I'll need to take action to address a worn-down stylus.  Is this Shelter a player in the segment where the whole turntable is priced the same (or less) as the cartridges y'all are discussing?

[HSB0531]

I have to unearth the TT and see what's on there now, but that's quite a list of choices you gave.

 

[JohnnyB]

4 hours ago, HSB0531 said:

I have to unearth the TT and see what's on there now, but that's quite a list of choices you gave.

My point was that when you go with US list price for the Shelter 201, there are many contenders in the $300-400 range. But when you look at it as a $167 cartridge, it pretty much stands alone. 

4 hours ago, mrjamiam said:

For those of us (OK, maybe just me) who are not all that well-informed on mixing and matching componentry, is any cartridge pretty much interchangeable with any other?  That is, is there a standard that they comply with?  My Pro-Ject Debut Carbon is still very new, but I suppose the day will come when I'll need to take action to address a worn-down stylus.  Is this Shelter a player in the segment where the whole turntable is priced the same (or less) as the cartridges y'all are discussing?

In absolute terms, no, cartridges aren't uniformly plug'n'play. I could go into how they're different but I could write all night about it and it would just discourage you. Fortunately, Pro-Ject built in a very simple upgrade path for the Debut Carbon. The included cartridge is the Ortofon 2M Red with a bonded stylus. It is the entry level cart in Ortofon's 2M series. The next version up is the 2M Blue, which has a nude elliptical stylus, which has lower moving mass and a more direct connection between the stylus and the cantilever it's attached to. This gives you wider bandwidth, more low level detail, and better dynamics. The stylus assemblies for the 2M Red and Blue bodies are interchangeable. Therefore, when your 2M Red stylus wears out, you can replace it with a 2M Blue stylus, which is currently $204. Since the 2M Red and Blue have the same geometry and electrical characteristics, this upgrade is plug'n'play. All you do is pull out the red stylus assembly and snap the blue one in. No re-alignment, no rebalancing the tonearm, etc.

 - +  = 

 

[JohnnyB]

3 hours ago, gtrdaddy said:

Actually, in the $350 category you can get into a 2M Blue (the next step up stylus-wise in a MM instead of MC) for less money, and for a little bit more ($400+/-) you can get into a 2M Bronze which has a far superior stylus that the Quintet Red again in MM instead) In fact, German Ortofon dealer William Thacker has them on special for $300 right now! (eBay seller williamthakker)

You can't beat that with a stick. The 2M Bronze comes close to the 2M Black in terms of performance. Not quite the Black's equal, but close enough to the $650 Black that the Bronze at $300 is a no brainer!  Putting that into perspective, the 2M Black has been compared closely to the Quintet Black which is 1K :-()

When you talk about the 2M Blue being the next step up stylus-wise, that was in response to mrjamiam, who has a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon which comes standard with a 2M Red. For him I recommended (when replacement or upgrade time comes) to just get an Ortofon 2M replacement stylus ($204 stateside, $159 from Thakker on eBay. 

The larger rundown on $350-ish cartridges was for the benefit of HSB0531 in response to my original post about the Shelter 301, which lists at $310 stateside but can be had from Japanese vendors on eBay for $167 (which is what I did). I didn't include the 2MBlue because it's about $100 less than the category I was addressing. I've come across a customer review or two where the user replaced his 2M Blue with the Shelter 201 (the original topic of this thread) and stated that it was a noticeable step up. I sure like mine. 

The 2M Bronze at roughly $300 from Thakker is quite a value. He also has the 2M Black for $513-515 and a stateside vendor offers one for $449 right now. 

Still, some people are uncomfortable bypassing the authorized dealer networks in the US, esp. in the matter of customer service.

Have you actually used/heard the Ortofon 2M Bronze? 

[Disturber]

On 2016-08-16 at 5:04 PM, JohnnyB said:

The MC 2 Super is out of production, right? Is it a high output moving coil cartridge? Does it look anything like one of these?

I misspelled. It's the MC 20 SUPER that I have.

An older one. Not the reissue. The tip seems fine. But I don't really know how many hours is on it, so I will re-tip it any one of these days.

http://www.ortofon.com/mc-20-super-p-633

 

[JohnnyB]

Disturber: Very nice cartridge. Some say the average time before replacement or retip is 1,000 hours, but supposedly some tips (e.g., MicroLine) can last up to 4,000 hours. The reissues also use a 5/70 Fritz-Geiger profile. Maybe you could contact some audio service shops and get their take on the service life of that stylus.

Judging by the specs, the reissue appears to be a faithful reproduction.

Edited to add: Some shops that do business in cartridges have microscopes to check stylus wear. For such a legendary cartridge it would be worth calling around to find that service instead of guessing. At some point a worn or chipped stylus can start damaging record grooves, or so I've read.

[Disturber]

6 hours ago, gtrdaddy said:

 

Hey Guys, MC 20 Super is a great cartridge and am glad to see it's coming back. I know someone at Ortofon. I'll  get the skinny on lifespan and re-tipping. They may not even re-tip this one any longer. They have a cartridge swap out program for several of their carts that give you credit for the old towards the replacement and works out to be the cost of a typical quality re-tip. I'll reach out tomorrow. 

PM me if you guys have any Ortofon desires and I'll get you hooked up.

Ortofon don't re-tip. They offer you a discount on new cartridges instead. But it would still make it a very expensive affair to buy a new Ortofon MC cartridge of the same quality.
I have found a guy in Germany that re-tips the Ortofons. This is what he wrote me last year:

" The price for the retipping with an Shibata Stylus will be 170,00 - 180,00 Euro additional Tax and Shipping.
The price for the retipping with an elliptical Stylus will be 80-90 Euro additional tax  and shipping. "

That is way cheaper than trading in your old MC Ortofon pickup for a new one. So I will probably do that. I will take JohnnyB's advice and go and have the stylus checked out. It is just a hassle to remove it from the tone arm, and then having to put it back and align it again. Takes a few hours. But I guess it's worth it.

When I contacted Ortofon on this a while back the suggested the Quinted Bronze as a straight replacement for the MC20 Super.
https://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/Quintet-bronze-p1289  
Alternatively, the more expensive Cadenza Red or Blue. 

[JohnnyB]

6 hours ago, Disturber said:

I have found a guy in Germany that re-tips the Ortofons. This is what he wrote me last year:

" The price for the retipping with an Shibata Stylus will be 170,00 - 180,00 Euro additional Tax and Shipping.
The price for the retipping with an elliptical Stylus will be 80-90 Euro additional tax  and shipping. "

Man, those are really good prices for retips. Over here I get the sense that a retip costs about 70-80% of the retail price of the cartridge. I assume these quotes are for nude stylii?

[JohnnyB]

28 minutes ago, gtrdaddy said:

Yeah I had the same impression.

Right now the replacement stylus for my MM cartridge runs $258 or €227,82. True, it's a nude microline on a gold-coated boron* cantilever, but still, €180 for a nude shibata retip is a relative steal.

* Boron's atomic number is 5. For reference oxygen's atomic number is 8. Boron doesn't occur naturally on earth as an element. It has to be extracted from borosilicate.