Wordupperman

The clarification regarding Hamer guitars being priced higher than competitors like Fender and Gibson is well-supported by the search results. Here’s a concise summary of the key points: Pricing Context for Hamer Guitars Higher Initial Pricing: Hamer guitars were often priced higher than many of their competitors, including Fender and Gibson, particularly in the context of the late 1970s and early 1980s. For example, while a used Hamer could cost at least $1,000 less than a Gibson Custom Shop model, it was still positioned above many standard offerings from competitors Quality and Craftsmanship: Hamer was known for its high-quality craftsmanship, which justified its pricing. The brand was considered a boutique manufacturer, focusing on custom builds that catered to professional musicians This emphasis on quality contributed to their higher price point compared to mass-produced models from larger manufacturers.Market Positioning: Hamer marketed itself as a premium brand, likening its status to that of a Ferrari in the guitar industry, contrasting with the more mass-market approach of companies like Gibson and Fender This positioning reinforced the perception that Hamer guitars were not just affordable alternatives but rather high-end instruments with unique features. Conclusion In summary, Hamer guitars were consistently priced higher than many standard models from Fender and Gibson, reflecting their commitment to quality and craftsmanship. This distinction is important for understanding Hamer's place in the market as a premium brand rather than merely an alternative to vintage instruments.

I think Stone Goddard in Pearl Jam had a Daytona Baritone. Can't remember the article he mentioned it.

That band Red Siren was from here in Chicago. Brandt and drummer Greg Potter. Guitarist was a doctor ($$$$$$$) I think. Singer was a local and had some sisters in the biz too. So, not funny that it could be a Hamer for reals.

Is Mike going to the Hamer thing in Chicago?

That's right Jaye, what Hamer needs is some great mid-market imports and a bunch of endorsements... then our little secret will go BIG TIME! I seriously think it can be done.

They did pretty well with Gretsch and Jackson... and I'd imagine it would be hard to do more damage than Kaman has done. Maybe we'll gt those reissues after all.

Jaye, buddy... I'm right here with you on this one. The reason PRS was so successful was that they had already "seeded" the young market's mindset by turning PRS into a high-buck status item that young dudes couldn't afford. Then their artist relations guy went to gigs in a van full of guitars and handed them out like candy. There was a story in a major national newspaper about this, so it's not conjecture on my part either. I actually wondered why PRS allowed their guy to say all the stuff he did in the story, but I guess that they figured that rockers don't read newspapers, so what the heck. That was the first half of the one-two punch... the import line being the second. Now, young guys COULD get a PRS like their heroes, without the hassle of law school. My observation is that if you draw a timeline of Hamer's involvemet with major artists of any kind, it tanks just about the time that Kaman Corporate took over the marketing, which was about 1996. Prior to that, Jol was doing all the artist relations and marketing and advertising was handled in-house. Many artists remained loyal for a while out of respect, and because they had personal ties with "the guy" at Hamer, but after a while some of those guys probably were ordered to deal with corporate guys at Kaman instead. I know this to be the case because I interviewed Rick Nielsen, and even he got shoved off on some Kaman AR guy for a while. My theory is also that the break between Hamer and Tom Peterson was caused by this too. I think that the recent appearance of Jol's blog and his guru tours is an effort to get back some of the credibility that Kaman threw away with Hamer. From what I gather, Jol is much more involved recently, and that bodes well for the future if Fender is smart enough to take advantage of it. Maybe this is Hamer's big chance. I don't trust big corporations, but sometimes they get it right, so all we can do is hope and throw our support behind Frank, Jol and the guys in the shop. Now I know some people have accused me of being Hamer's press agent, or some kind of insider, but this is all info that anybody could scrounge up if they wanted to. Enough cheerleading, back to your regularly scheduled program...

Sorry Jaye, my bad. Shouldn't have said that I s'pose. Maybe I thought you were younger than you are... seeing as I read your post about "discovering" P90s for the first time... Take it as a compliment, at least I didn't think you were a OLD guy still trying to hammer out Bad Company covers. (I didn't check your set list) You're totally entitled to your opinions and that's fine. One thing I think is that a lot of what you wish for are things that the current Hamer/corporate deal won't allow even though Jol or whomever at Hamer may want it too. As far as "drinking the koolaid" I'm obviously not of the opinion that everything that Hamer does is perfect, which is the point I was trying t make.

Have to agree with eduave on this one. The Hamer shop is buried with high-dollar custom and "designer" guitars. That's actually the way that the Hamer company first started... before guys like Mr. Jisham even knew what a guitar was. Ten years ago, Hamer was practically out of business and had to be downsized BECAUSE they had gotten off track from their original business model and went shred. The last three years has seen Hamer being much more dominant than in a long time. Five years ago, prices were in the tank (both retail and resale) and when you asked anybody (including pros) about Hamer, they'd say "Kramer? Are they still in business?" Jol and Hamer have rescued a brand from extinction by learning from their mistakes and getting back to what makes them great. I personaly think that their designs in the last decade have been extremely focused and innovative while not straying from their roots. My feeling from talking to as many people in the business as I have, is that the biggest reason that Hamer has not "caught on" is the parent company's (Kaman) inability to market what Hamer has. From the awards and glowing reviews to the raves from anyone who plays one, it's clear that the product is right. It's just the corporate structure of Kaman that has been dragging Hamer down. Maybe if Fender is smart, they'll put Jol back in charge of the marketing and artist relations like the old days, and we'll see some real action. I think that if you think that Jol is doing what he wants in regard to marketing, you are very naive about how things work in a corporation that is focused on the distribution of accessories. You only need to talk to the marketing and brand guys (I've interviewed them) at Kaman to see that they aren't about rock, guitars or even music. I think it's a miracle that Hamer has survived, especialy since Bill Kaman got run out of town.

Guys, it's just an inlay pattern! Who knows what will replace it as far as options go? Right now the Hamer option list is pretty long. By the way, try getting crowns on a PRS. Jaye, who am I? What is my agenda? I'm a Hamer fan. I like what they do and I play their guitars. I don't agree with everything that they do but I try to find the "upside" in it because they've figured out how to stay around for 35 years and still get better instead of worse. I'm interested in more than just the inlays. People come here to discuss Hamer, and that's what we're doing. Just because a few people here think that Hamer hasn't done anything since the Virtuoso, doesn't mean there isn't another point of view. I won't miss the crown inlays, but what I would miss is if they stopped making guitars altogether.

At the risk of being called Hamer's press agent... Actually Jaye, the one of reasons that the original Sunburst was named as such, was because you could get it in any color as long as it was Sunburst. Of course later you could get it in other colors, but the point is that Hamer has a history of confusing choices, names and policies. Just part of the attraction for me, and also as a historian... it makes it more interesting. Dantzig has said for some time that Hamer is being "positioned" as a designer brand. With quotes in Tone Quest, Musicians Hotline and in the Sky Radio interview to the effect of (and I'm paraphrasing somewhat) "We're a designer brand, we won't make just anything you want just because you have the money" and "we're not a job-shop". One of my favorites from an article in Musical Merchandise Review years ago was, "When someone comes to me and asks me to build them a Jackson, I give them Grover Jackson's phone number." My analysis of all this is that Dantzig feels that the custom shop thing is all played out, and ahead of the curve (once again for Hamer) he is steering the company towards a different place. Look at who has custom shops: Peavey, Carvin, ESP, Washburn, Dean, not to mention the five hundred "boutique" builders out there that will do anything for your business. This is most obviously coupled with the need to move away from "copy" or "replica" guitars. Think about this... For new models, Hamer has released only original designs starting with the Newport in 1999. I see the loss of the crown inlays as just one more step in the path that Hamer has been on for quite a few years.

I wonder where Ruth is? Anyways... prices are going up as Jol has talked about for ages, Hamer has made the final step to phase out crowns which Jol also said was going to happen almost two years ago... There are probably plenty more changes being planned just like every year and Fender doesen't even own them yet. Why don't we credit Fender with the Talladega as long as we're are at it. Let's give it a rest.

Here's more information and an interesting insight on what Fender was interested in with Kaman. Music Trades Article Also, a "cryptic" reference in the latest post from Dantzig I'm feeling OK about this whole thing, maybe it will be for the best after all. Five years ago the idea of a $10,000 Hamer seemed impossible to many, but now they make and sell them regularly.

McCarty's name is on all the patents of the era because he was the chief executive of the company that owned the patent. A company owns all the rights to the intelectual property (as it is called now) but they need to put someones name on the line on the form. I'm sure the attorneys on this board can correct me if I'm wrong or add insight, but my feeling is that McCarty got a lot of credit for things done by other people, with the excepton of Seth Lover.

Nice thread. I love fiction, especially thrillers! I actually think that Jol and Fender are loving this. He's said publicly very nice things about Fender, Strats and Leo in particular ask people who attended a guru clinic like I did. He's been on a campaign to raise Hamer's quality AND prices, even to the point of saying that the Improv should be double the price when it came out. He's said publicly that he still loves the shredders like the Californian, but it wasn't the focus of the high end marketing direction for Hamer. He's also been in favor of an import line that provides good value and pumps up the bottom line, including Californians. If we see $20,000 limited edition Hamers it will be because Jol thinks they are worth it in comparison to what other guys charge. The guys at Fender are gonna love him.