velorush Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I am seeing quite a few more Mesa Subway Rockets up for sale than I am Subway Blues. Other than having two channels on the Rocket, are there any other differences (ones that would make you say, definitely wait for the Subway and forget the Rocket)?
carfish7 Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 As someone who has owned and used both extensively, I would say that they are VERY different beasts. The beauty of the Blues is its simplicity and incredible tone-shaping capability, especially the mid and treble controls. I think the best comparison in the Boogie line would be the Blue Angel vs. a DC-3 - very different rigs for different playing styles. The Rocket will get all kind of dirty, and approaches the "Nu-Metal" gain arena with the contour control engaged. It is a very cool little amp but the clean sounds are very thin and sterile sounding to my ears. Jacked into a bigger cab, the Rocket is really a rock monster, while the Blues will not get really, really dirty unless you dime it and crank the mid control up. I have found my own personal tonal nirvana with the Blues, and use a bunch of stompboxes to get my grind on (it takes pedals really well). I recently put my Blues chassis in a 1x12 combo cab with an EV to get a "bigger" sound, but am a bit unsure about whether or not it was an improvement. The clean tone of the Blues is really, really nice, with a Vox/Fender vibe to it. It really depends on the mid setting, and moving it a fraction creates a huge change in tone. Bottom line is this; what do you seek tone-wise? If there is a specific reason the Blues interests you, I think you will be disappointed with the Rocket. The reverb on the Rocket is not very good either, while the 'verb on the Blues is really nice. Mine has a half-power jack too, which makes it even more versatile. If you can't tell, I think the Blues is a far superior rig, but for MY particular needs. YMMV. Oh, and if you decide to seek out a Blues, be aware that there was an issue with humming on some early units. Lots of them were repaired, but you should ask if it has been updated or not, or look for one that has the "Bright/Fat" mini toggle rather than the 2 input jacks. Mesa is a very easy company to deal with and they will still support these amps and update them (at a cost, of course), and they could probably tell you when they stopped using the "goo" covering that created the thermal problem (that caused the noise) in the SB. Just because I like to show it off, here is my Blues in its new cab. Let me know if you have any further questions, or pop over to the Boogie Board and ask there for more perspectives. Z
velorush Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 The answer to exactly what I was asking! Thanks.
carfish7 Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 BTW That amp conversion looks great Z! Thanks! (to DavidE) The thing is, I'm not sure it sounds any better!!!! It sure did turn a small, lightweight amp into something that, well, isn't anymore. The jury is out, but until my IIC+ gets back from its quarter century service, I'll keep this going and maybe it will grow on me (or I'll build some bigger muscles and not have to worry about it). Z
velorush Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 I'm looking at two, both with the preferable bright switch, but they look different. From top to bottom, one (like yours) has "Bright" then the switch, then "Fat." The other has the switch, then "Bright" then "Fat." Any preference between these two?
Monacosis Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I'm looking at two, both with the preferable bright switch, but they look different. From top to bottom, one (like yours) has "Bright" then the switch, then "Fat." The other has the switch, then "Bright" then "Fat." Any preference between these two?not sure about that particular configuration, but another clue to a more recent production (with the hum fixed) is a 1/2 power speaker jack in the back.and fwiw, +1 on all observations above. the SB is a smoking amp. i'm anxious to hear more about Z's issues with the new cab. on paper this looks right the right way to go......mike
Brooks Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 chris, you should try a greenback in that new fancy cab,i betcha you'll KNOW it sounds better then!
velorush Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 Here is the switch in question (we'll call this Amp 1): This one (Amp 2) explicitly states it has the half-power jack: This one (Amp 1) does not address the half-power jack, but I can't see any difference in the back: FWIW, I really like Amp 1 better as it looks cleaner and has a cool tweed grill: Any advice (and no, buying them both isn't an option for me, LOL)?
carfish7 Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 "Amp #1" has been modified - that is why it looks different, or else it was a left-over faceplate from when they made the switch to a single input jack. It was common when they were modded(to address the hum) to do the one jack, mini toggle thing. The one that explicitly states that it has a half-power jack.............doesn't. That was a cut-and-paste from the Boogie spec page and does not apply to the one pictured in that regard. The half-power version has a 4th speaker jack (see mine - the internal speaker is plugged in to the 1/2) to do the 10 watt thing (and it is a good tonal option to boot). #1 would get my vote here as I'm pretty sure it is not going to hum. The half-power option wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me if I had to replace mine, and if the seller will give you the serial # odds are Mesa has a record of any repair work they did - at least they did with my MK series amps when I inquired. Hey Brooks, I just can't tell if the cab and EV make much of a diff! I keep A/B'ing the current and then jack it into the original smaller cab with the ceramic Black Shadow 10" and I just can't tell much difference at all beyond getting a HAIR more bottom and maybe some more clean headroom. It may not have been worth giving up the compact portability angle to just go Blonde ! Here is what I did when I wanted a touch more beef on a stage: The widebody has the same 200 watt EV in it. The one in the Subway belongs to my MKIIC+, and will need to go back into its cab when the chassis gets back from being massaged by Mike B in Petaluma. What is the Greenback going to bring to the party when compared to the EV (besides being lighter) and the stock (Eminence) Vintage Black Shadow? I have never rocked a Greenback. Z
Monacosis Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 "Amp #1" has been modified - that is why it looks different... ^^ this. my surviving SB is an early issue that i sent to Boogie to de-hum. when i got it back it looked just like Amp #1 AND sounded better than my later model (which i sold ). buy the tweed........ mike
Brooks Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 What is the Greenback going to bring to the party when compared to the EV (besides being lighter) and the stock (Eminence) Vintage Black Shadow? I have never rocked a Greenback. IMFO, the sound of EV's is more high fidelity; higher highs, lower lows, clean like a PA spkr. for clean stuff like jazz & country they sound real good. distorted, they sound harsh to me. if you are a longtime mesa fan, ymmv (i'm a longtime marshall fan for rawk & fender for cleans). greenbacks have a warmer, grainer midrange rawk sound that breaks up, its the sound of classic hard rawk. it will sound familiar and make you smile. methinks the black shadow is somewhere in the middle, but i haven't owned one since the early 90's so i dunno.
carfish7 Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 What is the Greenback going to bring to the party when compared to the EV (besides being lighter) and the stock (Eminence) Vintage Black Shadow? I have never rocked a Greenback. IMFO, the sound of EV's is more high fidelity; higher highs, lower lows, clean like a PA spkr. for clean stuff like jazz & country they sound real good. distorted, they sound harsh to me. if you are a longtime mesa fan, ymmv (i'm a longtime marshall fan for rawk & fender for cleans). greenbacks have a warmer, grainer midrange rawk sound that breaks up, its the sound of classic hard rawk. it will sound familiar and make you smile. methinks the black shadow is somewhere in the middle, but i haven't owned one since the early 90's so i dunno. I know I really dug my Marshall 1965a 4x10 with Celetions in combination with all my Mesas, including the Subway. I think I might actually like the hi-fi to build on and ave become accustomed to the way the EV really lets EVERYTHING come through loud and clear. Sometimes it is a bit too honest, if you know what I mean. Sorry to hijack Z
velorush Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 "Amp #1" has been modified - that is why it looks different... ^^ this. my surviving SB is an early issue that i sent to Boogie to de-hum. when i got it back it looked just like Amp #1 AND sounded better than my later model (which i sold ). buy the tweed........ mike Well, I was good to go until I learned of this "Half Power Jack." That sounds incredibly interesting to me. I really like that we know Amp #1 is fixed and the cosmetics, as well, but the possibility of waiting until one with the HPJ comes along could keep me from pulling the trigger...
Punkavenger Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 I say buy the tweed also ... those are hard to find!
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