Computer speakers?

[specialk]

I'm looking for some above-average speakers for my iMac. I'd like to spend $150 or less. The Harmon Kardon Soundsticks II caught my eye:

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products...D=SOUNDSTICKSII

They get pretty good reviews. Does anyone here use them?

[sixesandsevens]

If you want the best there is, it would be the $1500/pair http://www.magnepan.com/model_mini_maggie'>Mini-Maggies. These are dipole panel speakers with a matching woofer and they are stunning.

[img=http://www.magnepan.com/content/binary/speakers/h240/mini_maggie_02.jpg]

That is the Hamer of desktop loudspeakers.

I can't speak for the desktops, but in general I'd call Magnepan the Hamer of playback speakers.

[django49]

If you want the best there is, it would be the $1500/pair Mini-Maggies. These are dipole panel speakers with a matching woofer and they are stunning.

[img=http://www.magnepan.com/content/binary/speakers/h240/mini_maggie_02.jpg]

That is the Hamer of desktop loudspeakers.

I can't speak for the desktops, but in general I'd call Magnepan the Hamer of playback speakers.

Then they should be available for under $500 used, right?

[JohnnyB]

If you want the best there is, it would be the $1500/pair Mini-Maggies. These are dipole panel speakers with a matching woofer and they are stunning.

That is the Hamer of desktop loudspeakers.

I can't speak for the desktops, but in general I'd call Magnepan the Hamer of playback speakers.

Then they should be available for under $500 used, right?

Well, that's one way Magnepan is not like Hamer; their products have good resale value. Another is that the company is still in the hands of the original founder/ownership and haven't changed their product philosophy one whit. In fact, most of the time when Maggies go up for sale it's because the owner is upgrading to a bigger or newer model, or he's caving in to a wife who doesn't want 6-7' tall panels dominating the living room. To get an idea, check these used listings. Example: Here is a 19-year-old pair of MG 3.5s, $3100 new list in 1993, available used for $1900.

Given how new the Mini-Maggies are, and that they sweat the details so much that i saw them in a demo 6 years before they were offered as a product, I doubt that you're going to see appreciably cheaper used ones for some time.

[django49]

Love me some Maggies.......However, when I finally made my wife happy by getting rid of the Klipschhorns, it was clear to me that 6 foot anythings would never be tolerated in the living room!

After 27 years together, I guess I will not trade HER in!

[JohnnyB]

Love me some Maggies.......However, when I finally made my wife happy by getting rid of the Klipschhorns, it was clear to me that 6 foot anythings would never be tolerated in the living room!

After 27 years together, I guess I will not trade HER in!

Aah, they're not so intrusive. Here's a 20-series panel. It's a petite 6'7" tall and 29" wide:

Actually Django49, I'm curious as to what speakers you're listening through these days. You may have told me but I forget.

[django49]

We sorta inherited some other gear. The guy that built our house was some sort of electrical engineering guru. There are, apparently over 2 MILES of low voltage wiring throughout the house and shop. So we can pretty much connect anything----data, cable, phones----From anyplace to any other place.....Plus wiring for speakers in several rooms. many of which are built in to the ceiling. Not necessarily high end, but decent enough for piping FM and other sounds into six different rooms. There is also surround built into 3 other rooms-----The family room, our son's BR and the BR now known as my music/guitar room....Each requires separate electronics, but is all wired behind the walls.

He built out one room as a dedicated "theater" which has Phase Technology (5) for surround and a Pinnacle sub. Whether they are the best I dunno, but they get the job done handily. with B&K components.

We moved some things with us, so by default my old surround system is now in the guest apartment above the shop. Four Ohm Walsh (the bigger ones) plus their newer center speaker. As far as I know, they are still making and selling direct. Those are pushed by my (again older) Carver Cinema Grand separates, inc an SACD. They push enough sound that I have not added a sub.

We would NOT have nearly so much stuff around, but.......It was all packed up in storage in prep for a move before we knew we would stumble into all this gear as part of the house purchase. And there is not enough value in used gear to dump the "extra", so we will just live with it. The sacrifices we must make!

At one time, before the Ohm excursion, I wanted to "do surround" with Mags----At the time they had just some out with smaller panels that could mount to the wall and then fold outta the way. That idea got vetoed pretty quickly. And doing surround with FOUR Klipschorns (and a slightly smaller center channel) was an idea that would NEVER stand a chance!

[JohnnyB]

^^^^

That's quite a pile of good gear you have spread around the house. Def Tech, Ohm, Sunfire Cinema Grand, B&K--all great stuff. And yes, Ohm Walsh Speakers are still alive and kicking as a direct-only vendor.

I like a setup of omni speakers for surround sound. I use a bunch of bipolar and omnipolar Mirages for my HT rig.

[sixesandsevens]

Well, that's one way Magnepan is not like Hamer; their products have good resale value. Another is that the company is still in the hands of the original founder/ownership and haven't changed their product philosophy one whit. In fact, most of the time when Maggies go up for sale it's because the owner is upgrading to a bigger or newer model, or he's caving in to a wife who doesn't want 6-7' tall panels dominating the living room. To get an idea, check these used listings. Example: Here is a 19-year-old pair of MG 3.5s, $3100 new list in 1993, available used for $1900.

Admittedly, there's a big difference in the high end vs. low end Maggies, but the lower end models punch far above their price point (hence the Hamer-of rating). I think I got a pair of used MG12s for around $550. They could use a sub for a lot of material (I run mine with a low-end Definitive Tech model), but they still sound fan-freaking-tastic solo for anything mid-rich (acoustic instruments, vocals, etc.). It looks like the MMGs are $599 new (they're the "gateway drug" model).

I learned about them from a co-worker who had both the 1.6 and maybe the 3.6 panels in two separate systems. I went to a place in town here called The Listening Room that's a Magnepan dealer. It's a little shop that is only open on weekends. A friend of mine went in with me for a demo one weekend and both walked out with MG12s that had been traded in/up. And these aren't even the "good" ones...

And, you'll note, that per the bold text above, even my rather modest MG12s are awaiting a time when the kids no longer need my old music/theater space for a playroom to be set back up again. They're patiently waiting in the corner by the printer... and I can't wait to plug 'em back in.

Given how new the Mini-Maggies are, and that they sweat the details so much that i saw them in a demo 6 years before they were offered as a product, I doubt that you're going to see appreciably cheaper used ones for some time.

That's probably VERY true...

[django49]

Wow, Johnny B........The prices on the Ohm gear. these days, is way up there. (It has been years since I shopped for audio gear). The prices I picked them up for used (when in (SoCal) was almost nothing. Does not bother me to have a few dings here and there.....In fact so cheap that I picked up "extras". One of these days I should get them (the extras) out of storage and see if there is anyone locally that appreciates them.

[JohnnyB]

Well, that's one way Magnepan is not like Hamer; their products have good resale value. Another is that the company is still in the hands of the original founder/ownership and haven't changed their product philosophy one whit. In fact, most of the time when Maggies go up for sale it's because the owner is upgrading to a bigger or newer model, or he's caving in to a wife who doesn't want 6-7' tall panels dominating the living room. To get an idea, check these used listings. Example: Here is a 19-year-old pair of MG 3.5s, $3100 new list in 1993, available used for $1900.

Admittedly, there's a big difference in the high end vs. low end Maggies, but the lower end models punch far above their price point (hence the Hamer-of rating). I think I got a pair of used MG12s for around $550. They could use a sub for a lot of material (I run mine with a low-end Definitive Tech model), but they still sound fan-freaking-tastic solo for anything mid-rich (acoustic instruments, vocals, etc.). It looks like the MMGs are $599 new (they're the "gateway drug" model).

Actually, it's true all the way up the Magnepan line. Their 20.7 is a little under $14K, but is competitive with speakers up to at least $70K and maybe beyond. The 20.7s are considered vastly superior to their predecessor, the 20.1. I heard the 20.1 supplemented by a pair of JL Fathom F212 subwoofers. Although it was an expensive setup at $25K, I had just listened to a pair of Wilson Alexndria X-2s at $168,000, and the $25K Mag/JL setup was competitive. At $13,795 (or thereabouts) the 20.7 has less need of a subwoofer, so it's a crazy good value. Here's a http://www.avguide.com/blog/first-listen-magnepan-s-new-flagship-207-loudspeaker'>blog review of the 20.7 by an Absolute Sound guy.

Speaking of gateway drug, I have an audiobuddy who got a pair of MMGs early in 2011. In the time since he has upgraded to used 1.6s, near-new 1.7s, used 3.6s, and as of October was getting ready to get a pair of 1st-gen. 20's. I wonder how long it'll be before he moves up to used 20.1s.

[sixesandsevens]

Actually, it's true all the way up the Magnepan line. Their 20.7 is a little under $14K, but is competitive with speakers up to at least $70K and maybe beyond. The 20.7s are considered vastly superior to their predecessor, the 20.1. I heard the 20.1 supplemented by a pair of JL Fathom F212 subwoofers. Although it was an expensive setup at $25K, I had just listened to a pair of Wilson Alexndria X-2s at $168,000, and the $25K Mag/JL setup was competitive. At $13,795 (or thereabouts) the 20.7 has less need of a subwoofer, so it's a crazy good value. Here's a blog review of the 20.7 by an Absolute Sound guy.

Speaking of gateway drug, I have an audiobuddy who got a pair of MMGs early in 2011. In the time since he has upgraded to used 1.6s, near-new 1.7s, used 3.6s, and as of October was getting ready to get a pair of 1st-gen. 20's. I wonder how long it'll be before he moves up to used 20.1s.

Wow!

I can empathize with that though... I started with MMGWs and almost immediately moved them to be surrounds and found the MG12s.

Since having kids, I've realized that I'm actually ok with an iPod into Koss PortaPros as long as I can find a quiet corner to be alone.

[django49]

I took the advice on the Audio Engine (smaller) speakers. A HUGE improvement over the cheaper things I was using with the PC in the office----And small enough to pass the WAF test. I imagine they should sound even better after more than a few hours of use.

One question----Anyone have experience with their DAC? Would it be a good improvement?

I have a fairly large library of varied music on the hard drive, mostly ripped from CDs in a format that is much better than the tinny mp3s. So I THINK the underlying sound quality potential is pretty decent.

Thanks.

[JohnnyB]

I took the advice on the Audio Engine (smaller) speakers. A HUGE improvement over the cheaper things I was using with the PC in the office----And small enough to pass the WAF test. I imagine they should sound even better after more than a few hours of use.

One question----Anyone have experience with their DAC? Would it be a good improvement?

Here's the short answer: Get it!

Or if you're a glutton for overload:

I have never read a bad thing about an AudioEngine product. If you go to the AudioAdvisor listing for this product, you'll see several excerpts under the "Reviews" tab. Steve Guttenberg and Steven Stone are regular contributors to rival high end publications Stereophile and The Absolute Sound. The reviewer for Audioholics.com stated that the improvement was immediately noticeable. Audioholics is normally skeptical about audible differences in cables and components. The Customer Reviews are all 5-star as well.

The feature set of this DAC is particularly user-friendly. For example, it has both USB and optical Toslink inputs. Most Mac-based computers have Toslink optical outputs as well as USB. For output it has both stereo RCAs and a headphone jack. This thing is made to work with a home stereo, a desktop system, or headphones without I/O or power adapters.

This is a no-risk purchase: free shipping and a 30-day try'n'return period from AudioEngine's website or any other online dealer. Anything significantly better is going to cost at least twice as much and will sacrifice features.

It also allows for better computer-based sound than the CD standard of 16-bit/44.1 Khz. This is a 24-bit/192 Khz DAC, enabling you to play back high-def downloads up to 24/192 Khz levels of resolution, which in some cases is like getting a copy of the master tape. Those I own a few of those and they're niiiiice! This is the highest sampling rate DAC I know of anywhere near this price. Even the $250 Dragonfly I gushed about 3 mos. ago tops out at 96 khz.

[django49]

Okay, short response........Got it!

Well, got it coming in the brown truck next week. I should learn more about the jargon and all......Too old fashioned I guess.

If I have it right, my files are, mostly, WMA at 64 Kbps. Is that the same as 16 bit/44.1 khz (CD)? These were all ripped directly from CDs, with a few exceptions, so I assume they are the same quality as the CDs(?) In any event, not the highest potential format, but not the mp3 thing either. So it sounds like there should be some great room for improvement based upon the reviews you gave me a link to search. And based upon the price, it sounds like a bargain.

When my wife gets back in town, she will have to weigh in on whether she "needs" the Audio Engine setup too........I just got her new phone set up with an expanded memory card and about 2500 of her favorite tunes, so between that and her computer upstairs, she should be a prime candidate.

Thanks AGAIN for imparting the benefit of your knowledge and experience so freely.

[JohnnyB]

If I have it right, my files are, mostly, WMA at 64 Kbps. Is that the same as 16 bit/44.1 khz (CD)? These were all ripped directly from CDs, with a few exceptions, so I assume they are the same quality as the CDs(?) In any event, not the highest potential format, but not the mp3 thing either. So it sounds like there should be some great room for improvement based upon the reviews you gave me a link to search. And based upon the price, it sounds like a bargain.

You can rip a CD at 16/44.1 Khz, but if you apply lossy compression, the data density--measured in bit rate (e.g., 64 kbps)--drops. This comes from lossy compression applying algorithms to remove the data deemed least noticeable. I have ripped all my files in Apple Lossless (ALAC) format. It compresses at about 2:1, but no data is thrown away so the full resolution of the CD can be retrieved. Looking at my list of ALAC files in iTunes, I see that their bit rates range from about 300 Kbs to about 1.1 Mbps with most in the 500-600 kbps range. Microsoft claims that WMA packs more data into a given bit rate than an equivalent mp3, though RealNetworks disputes that. See the Wiki article. At any rate, it's at least equivalent to 128 kbs mp3, and maybe better, and the AudioEngine DAC should improve the analog conversion. I'm thinking about getting one myself as it would allow me to plug in USB or Toslink optical, and then listen via headphones or thru the stereo without adapters.

[JohnnyB]

Okay, short response........Got it!

Well, got it coming in the brown truck next week. I should learn more about the jargon and all......Too old fashioned I guess.

If I have it right, my files are, mostly, WMA at 64 Kbps. Is that the same as 16 bit/44.1 khz (CD)? These were all ripped directly from CDs, with a few exceptions, so I assume they are the same quality as the CDs(?) In any event, not the highest potential format, but not the mp3 thing either. So it sounds like there should be some great room for improvement based upon the reviews you gave me a link to search. And based upon the price, it sounds like a bargain.

Tone report? How do you like it, and probably more revealing, how does your wife like it? I finally found a professional review on this unit and it looks like a particularly good match for compressed music files.

[django49]

I suppose I was misinformed about what the quality of such as WAV/WMV is. I almost certainly do NOT have recordings on the hard drive that are anywhere close to the "state of the art". Most were ripped from CDs. Some of those tunes were recorded off FM radio years ago (to reel to reel) then converted to digital before my old RR decks crapped out, since I knew they are long out of print. . And my ears, all these years on,with the impacts of high power guitar amps in between, are most certainly not the best. But, DAMN, I like the sound of these!!! That is the AE 2s, with the AE DAC unit and the stands that raise/reposition the units.. An incredible improvement over the old Altec PS speakers, even without that unit's subwoofer. The sound is SO MUCH BETTER, that I am loving it. Rediscovering music amidst my 15,000+ tunes on the hard drive that I "forgot" about........Losing sleep as a result!

I do use these in MY office, so the wife acceptance factor is not much of an issue. She does like the sound. I DID offer to put the same thing on her desk (thinking that IF she went for that, I MIGHT upgrade to the AE 5 speakers---I am no fool, contrary to popular belief). Thus far, she is more than happy with what is there already and if she does not have to see speakers AT ALL, she will be happy. But we co-exist well enough....... And I have not given up.

I am guessing these will sound even better when more "broken in", but I know for sure they are NOT going back. The thought crosses my mind to upgrade further to the wireless AE products to spread joy around the house.....Premature for me to go there......

In the meantime, I put nearly 6,000 tunes on her smart phone and she is overwhelmed......