12 string A/E under $500?

[morningstar]

I gave away all my acoustics in 1978... so I am out of the acoustic/electric loop to say the least. I gave up acoustics because they were like trying to play a cyclone fence...stiff. I understand the acoustics' playability has vastly improved.

Like most, I want a 12 string with good sound and playability but can't break the bank for a guitar that does not get played all the time.

What's the deal with the electronics? What matters? What doesn't?

Thanks

morningstar

[Jimbilly]

I'd get a Takamine, any Takamine with a solid top. If it doesn't come with electronics, I'd have an LR Baggs I-beam installed. The older, nicer Takamines seem to be just under $500 without electronics, but you'd have a great guitar for $600-ish. I had an older Yamaha with a solid top I liked too, it was not worth much money, but it was a nice guitar.

[JohnnyB]

This is a little over budget, but they're pretty well known for having a playing feel close to an electric.

If you can find a used USA-made 1778 Elite T 12-string, may be cheaper and better. Peso has one of those.

[Jeff R]

If the 12-string feels anything like the 6-string, I should find one for myself. I tell people ALL the time I challenge you to find a better playing and sounding acoustic than a USA-made 1778 Elite T for the money. I played mine all night last night.

Here's my 1778 sixer in a family portrait ... ignore Captain Jack, he thinks he's so handsome his face belongs on money.

[Uncle Thor's Hamer]

Johnny made a good suggestion with the Ovation. Ovations have always been built to be more like an electric to play. Ovation pioneered electronics in acoustics, too. BTW the official model for the 12 string is 2058TX which is a good guitar, and excellent for the price. It has the new bowl design called the 'Deep Contour', which is not just round, but contoured. It feels more like a regular wood box shape and won't tend to roll around.

The T guitars are widely touted by ovation snobs as being the best bang for the buck and for also being among the very best sounding of the Ovation line. You get the industrial look, which is the only potential downside. The TX are the current production version, built in Asia.

But you can do even better. The T is even better than the TX, being a USA made guitar. No, they don't make them in the USA any longer, so you're looking for a used guitar. The model is the 2058T. (The TX and AX are Asian made, the T and LX were USA made). I don't know if you can find one for under $500, but try over at the Ovationfanclub.com forums. The differences between the USA and Asian made are enough that to me it is worth buying the USA built.

But, even better, look for an older used Ovation Balladeer or Pacemaker. The 6 string versions can routinely be found in excellent condition for about $300 to $350. The 12 string versions should be in the same range. Sometimes they have finish cracks which are not structural, and of course a little wear. But for those prices it will be in nice condition.

I would recommend the original deep bowl first, though the mid bowl is fine. Deep feels like a regular wood box and has a huge sound. The mid bowl sounds like a normal dred in tone, and is slightly slimmer feeling than a regular wood box guitar. Look for "A" bracing which is the same as what the factory calls "Ovation Fan" bracing.

The Glen Campbell would be first on the list, model 1618. Also on the list would be the 1115, 1615, and 1751. I think all of these came with electronics, and the non-electric versions had different model numbers, but I'm not 100% sure. There is a bewildering array of model numbers, and then there is the Elite style with the multi-hole pattern.

Glen Campbell

Ovation 1615

The newest iteration of Ovation is the LX line. They are excellent guitars, but the used market is higher $ than the market for the older models, though all of the used market is quite below where it should be. So they're all excellent buys.

The original FET preamps were very good. The factory now sells a modern replacement for it that people say is even better. Over the years Ovation went to different models of preamps, all of which are good, so no worries there.

If you want new, I've been impressed with Takamine and with Seagull in terms of quality for the dollar. That's not to run any other brand down, it's just that I've seen the lower price levels of those and feel that they are good for the money. My girls each bought a sub $200 model for beach/dorm so they won't cry if damaged. Both guitars needed a good setup, but for the $ that is expected. The tone and structure are fine on both.

Any new guitar can usually be improved a lot with a good setup. On a 12 string the nut is a big contributor to feel in the first few frets, and getting it lowered will also improve intonation.

[elduave]

Two recommendations.

1) Buy something with factory installed electronics.

2) Make sure the *first* time you strum it in the store it's plugged in to a PA or acoustic amp and pay close attention to how well your high E('s) are coming through in relation to the rest of the strings. If you sense the high E being AT ALL too quiet, grab another one and repeat.

[morningstar]

All great tips.

I am not in any hurry, so testing will be fun. At least I now have some idea what to test drive.

Thanks!

morningstar

[JohnnyB]

If the 12-string feels anything like the 6-string, I should find one for myself. I tell people ALL the time I challenge you to find a better playing and sounding acoustic than a USA-made 1778 Elite T for the money. I played mine all night last night.

When Pesocaster was looking for an acoustic that played like an electric, I pointed him to the USA-made 1778 Elite T. The funny thing about that guitar is how synthetic it looks, yet how organic it sounds. He didn't want to like it but it blew away everything he tried up to $2500. So he got one, and he liked it so much that for his birthday late the following year his wife gave him the 12-string version via Dave's Rocketeria. You might want to PM Peso about it, but I got the impression he liked it every bit as much as his sixer.

[Jimbilly]

PM-ing is down, email me, I think I found a deal. jimchristensen -at- yahoo.com

[morningstar]

OK I am on my way to email.

morningstar

[morningstar]

Thanks for trying Jim. Thanks also for the tip on the local A/C electronics guy. As usual HFC members are the best.

I am currently stalking a 90's USA model 1755 12 string.

thanks

morningstar

[morningstar]

Okay so I went with this one. It's a Takamine EG 523 S 12 with Solid top and back.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Thanks for the help.

morningstar

[Jimbilly]

My guess is you will like that guitar a lot. Let us know.

[morningstar]

Wow. This Takamine sounds and plays fantastic.

When it arrived it had a waxy film on it. Somebody had also spilled some kind of a sugary orange sauce on one side and it had dried hard. This was one of the filthiest guitars I have seen.

So... I used Uncle Greggy's Magic Swirl Sauce on it and holy crap all the film and goo came off and it is super shiny under the film of mystery goo. Follow up with Smith's purple spray polish (Martin is better) and voila!

Unamplified this dreadnought is way louder than I expected and it is real sweet sounding. I have not tried it amplified. The tuner works very well.

More later.

I may post a pic of the headstock, which I will thoroughly clean and polish under the strings. Right now the scuzz is still under the strings and the contrast with the clean and polished Logo area is astounding (appalling?).

Thanks for all the help guys. I love this bar.

morningstar