Marshall JTM 45 RI vs Fender Tweed Bassman RI

[crunchee]

Has anybody here ever done a A/B comparison of these two amps for grins and giggles? What was the result? I'm curious how they compare to each other, just the straight factory RIs and NOT the boo-teek stuff, not a direct comparison with the originals either. I figure that the RIs must have some merits to them, otherwise why keep making them, other than for wannabe demand? Yes, I know that the Tweed Bassman RI has a 4 x 10 speaker open-back cabinet setup and 2 Ohms, and is not as flexible as the Marshall RI head where you can change cabinet configurations. Also, I always thought that the JTM 45 had the same output more or less as the Tweed Bassman, 45 watts, and that was why it had the '45' designation...but the Marshall website specs say it's THIRTY watts. What's up with that?

TIA!

[Jimbilly]

(This in no way answers any of your questions)

If you do get a '59 Bassman RI, get a 12AY7 for V1, it makes it a lot more like the real thing, which came with a 12AY7 in V1.

[Feynman]

I haven't compared either one, but the Marshall looks cooler.

[Disturber]

Then there is also the Bluesbreaker 2x12 reissue combo. Those sound pretty sweet.

[tbabinec]

Not a direct answer to your question, but my understanding from reading amp books like those by Dave Hunter is that the original Fender Bassman circuit was the inspiration for the original Marshall circuits. Jim Marshall naturally used UK-available materials such as Celestion speakers. Fender has a reissue Bassman, but how close is that in components to the original? Fender reissue build are driven by cost considerations and feature printed circuit boards rather than point-to-point wiring. You are ruling out boutique makers of Bassman clones. Similarly, what JTM 45 clone is being considered? So, there are a lot of variables to consider.

[Turdus]

I've owned a JTM 45 reissue. My brother has the Bassman 4x10 reissue.

Generally I'd take a Marshall over a Fender any day... but not in this case.

I've also owned several of the small box 50 watt reissue Marshalls. To me, those sound great. The JTM 45 that I owned seemed dull in comparison to the 50 watt. For whatever reason... tubes, speaker cabinet, my ears, whatever, the JTM 45 seemed lifeless.

Maybe it was the 4x10 configuration, but I thought my brother's Bassman sounded much better than the JTM 45. Bigger, fuller, plenty of tone.

[Disturber]

Not a direct answer to your question, but my understanding from reading amp books like those by Dave Hunter is that the original Fender Bassman circuit was the inspiration for the original Marshall circuits. Jim Marshall naturally used UK-available materials such as Celestion speakers. Fender has a reissue Bassman, but how close is that in components to the original? Fender reissue build are driven by cost considerations and feature printed circuit boards rather than point-to-point wiring. You are ruling out boutique makers of Bassman clones. Similarly, what JTM 45 clone is being considered? So, there are a lot of variables to consider.

There are differences. I have a JTM50 combo, similar to a JTM45 but with EL34's and a solid state rectefier. It's built from a 1973 Marshall Artiste combo, using most of the original components (mustard caps etc).

The guy who built it for me built a Bassman channel (6G6-B ) in it too, on channel one. The bassman channel is a bit stiffer, not as much mids, and you have to be careful with the treble control. But it flat out rocks.

This is an awesome amp indeed.

[crunchee]

I've owned a JTM 45 reissue. My brother has the Bassman 4x10 reissue.

Generally I'd take a Marshall over a Fender any day... but not in this case.

I've also owned several of the small box 50 watt reissue Marshalls. To me, those sound great. The JTM 45 that I owned seemed dull in comparison to the 50 watt. For whatever reason... tubes, speaker cabinet, my ears, whatever, the JTM 45 seemed lifeless.

Maybe it was the 4x10 configuration, but I thought my brother's Bassman sounded much better than the JTM 45. Bigger, fuller, plenty of tone.

Thanks, Turdus! This is EXACTLY the kind of answer I was looking for...and hoping for. Just a straight A/B comparison between these two RIs, with no additional 'but if you do this to the tubes/circuit...'. Yes, I already know about the history of the JTM 45, which is THE reason why I wanted to know if anybody had done a comparison between the JTM 45 RI and the Bassman RI. Yes, I know that the RIs can be tweaked. If it was a conversation about tweaks and mods and which kit/conversion is best, or which boo-teek version is best, then this conversation could go on for MONTHS. I just wanted to limit the question to these two RIs, since they have very similar circuits...but based ONLY on purely off-the-rack, straight-out-of-the-shipping-box examples.

I also knew about the 'Bluesbreaker' combo version, which is a 2 x 12" speaker combo, basically the same circuit as the JTM 45 except it has a tremolo feature. To be fair, I should probably include this in the comparison, but I already know those 12" speakers are gonna put out and emphasize different frequencies. I thought it was also unlikely that anybody would start hooking up cabinets to the Bluesbreaker RI and experiment with speaker configurations. That said, has anybody had a Bluesbreaker RI, and was able to compare it to a Bassman RI? Perhaps hook it up to a 4 x 12" or a 4 x 10" and compare?

Trivia: Marshall also had the Model 1961, essentially a JTM 45 Bluesbreaker with 4 x 10" configuration (the Bluesbreaker 2 x 12" is the Model 1962, both were out at the same time). Funny how there isn't much demand for a RI or a clone of the 1961.

[Disturber]

I've owned a JTM 45 reissue. My brother has the Bassman 4x10 reissue.

Generally

I also knew about the 'Bluesbreaker' combo version, /.../ has anybody had a Bluesbreaker RI, and was able to compare it to a Bassman RI? Perhaps hook it up to a 4 x 12" or a 4 x 10" and compare?

I haven´t owned the bluesbreaker reissue combo, but i've played it, (the later version). I thought it was a great amp. The Celestion Greenbacks in that amp are a great match. I love Marshall's and I prefer Combos, so I'd take it over the JTM45 top.

But I have not tried the reissue Fender Bassman, it's probably a great amp too. But for me the choice would be between the bluesbreaker combo or the Bassman reissue, and then it's a matter of preference I guess. The classic Marshall midrange grunt with Celestions, or the classic Fender sound. Both are great, just a flavor of the day. That is why I have both Marshall and Fender combos in my stasch

[Jimbilly]

The Bassman RIs are a very good re-creation of the original (that 12ay7 really helps), you should keep an eye out and just buy a nice used one for $600-$800, they seem to go for that. Give it 6 months to see if it's a keeper. Since it is one of the 'holy grail' circuits, it's worth owning one for at least a while, especially since they are so affordable and available.

I just cranked up my bassman for a few minutes, - I think the 4x10s give it a very 3D sound, squishy and organic too, it's a top-ten classic amp for good reason.

[Turdus]

Just a note on the Bluesbreaker RI. I've owned one of those also... and did not like it either. When I think Classic Marshall, I think 70's.

When I owned the BB, I compared it to a black face Pro reverb. Keep in mind I am not a Fender guy, but the Pro reverb was a much fuller sounding amp.... just a brilliant clean sound.

If you are looking for Classic Marshall, I think I'd look at the 50 watt reissue.