Bass Amp Question - 2x12 or 4x10 for Single Cab "Lightweight" Setup

[tbonesullivan]

For quite some time, my main bass rig has been a 2x10 paired with a 1x15, but both are quite big and heavy, being from the days when Neo speakers were something new. I've actually got two sets of 2x10 / 1x15 cabs, and am probably going to downsize the older one, and also sell off the bi-amped stuff that I never really used. The older 1x15 also has no high range driver, as it was intended to be used with a bi-amped system serving as a sub only.

Now I'm investigating getting a "lightweight" cabinet. I'm trying to decide whether I would like to get a 4x10 or a 2x12 cabinet with Neodymium drivers, which would have tweeters. I find a whole bunch of different information on which would "sound" better, cut better, etc etc etc. It would have to be a 4 ohm cab rated at least 800 watts. That's pretty easy to find for a 4x10, but for a 2x12 pretty much only Gallien-Krueger and Mesa Boogie have made 2x12 cabinets rated that high which are "lightweight".

It's also interesting what is considered "lightweight". Trace Elliot definitely does not understand "lightweight", but their stuff is also built to survive nuclear war. The GK stuff, well the Neo 4x10 is 63lbs, and only 4 lbs lighter than the non-neo at 67lbs.

[cmatthes]

What kind of rooms/stages are you playing?

[tbonesullivan]

12 hours ago, cmatthes said:

What kind of rooms/stages are you playing?

This would mostly be for outdoor playing. Any pit orchestra gigs I get would use a tiny bass amp, and most of the venues around me have good PA systems, and will run me direct from my pedalboard. Playing at home I'd probably just use my mini amp, or plug into the 2x10 / 1x15 cabinets.

I have heard that the 2x12s get slightly better sound dispersion, but I've never used one before.

Now, I DO have one bass rack set up that can put out 1000watts at 4ohms, so it would be nice to have that ability, and only the 4x10s can handle that power.

[cmatthes]

I've gotten away from the old 4x10H and 1X15H format I used in the 90s-mid '00s.  Lately, I've found that an Ampeg 2x12H does the trick anywhere (indoor or outdoor gigs).   I've also got the trusty BassDriver DI and a spare Tech21 DP3-X that I keep in the case to go direct or to split.  I'm finding that over the last 5-7 years, the sound guys have been very excited about not having to mic my cab, and just going with the Tech21 stuff.  I either use a cab to push air behind me or have gotten used to a monitor mix.

That being said, I still greatly prefer the 2x12H cab to do it all.

Hope that helps?

[tbonesullivan]

18 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

I've gotten away from the old 4x10H and 1X15H format I used in the 90s-mid '00s.  Lately, I've found that an Ampeg 2x12H does the trick anywhere (indoor or outdoor gigs).   I've also got the trusty BassDriver DI and a spare Tech21 DP3-X that I keep in the case to go direct or to split.  I'm finding that over the last 5-7 years, the sound guys have been very excited about not having to mic my cab, and just going with the Tech21 stuff.  I either use a cab to push air behind me or have gotten used to a monitor mix.

That being said, I still greatly prefer the 2x12H cab to do it all.

Hope that helps?

Definitely does. I think I've completely rethought my strategy. I've pretty much narrowed things down to a G-K Neo 2x12 or 4x10. All my bass amps and ones that I am thinking about have balanced direct outs, so no reason to even worry about having the cabinet mic'd. It would all be about what's gonna sound best in un-mic'd situations or at home.

I'm thinking now more about getting a G-K 2x12 and a G-K Fusion 800 head. Having the extra headroom is always nice. Now to listen to a ton of youtube demos.

[stobro]

When I was gigging a few years ago, I ended up with two 2X10 cabinets that I would stack to create a mini vertical line array. That got the upper speakers high enough off the floor to hear myself when I would stand only a foot or two in front of the rig (our "stages" were always tiny). That also meant the cabs were small and light enough to carry through narrow halls and provided flexibility when loading into the tight cargo hold in my car.

[tbonesullivan]

2 hours ago, stobro said:

When I was gigging a few years ago, I ended up with two 2X10 cabinets that I would stack to create a mini vertical line array. That got the upper speakers high enough off the floor to hear myself when I would stand only a foot or two in front of the rig (our "stages" were always tiny). That also meant the cabs were small and light enough to carry through narrow halls and provided flexibility when loading into the tight cargo hold in my car.

That's been one of the reasons I was focusing more on the G-K Neo IV line of cabinets. They are a bit taller and less deep. The 4x10 comes with removable casters, which would make it pretty easy to move around, if I had to.

Two stacked vertical 2x10s definitely sounds interesting, though the way the G-K Neo series runs, the 2x10 is only 4 inches less wide than the 4x10.. The 2x10 and 1x15 are actually identical in size in that series., and the 2x12 and 1x12 are the same width and depth, but different heights. Definitely a well designed cabinet series, though they don't have the interlocking tops that the previous neo series did. I was really looking to find some of those used, but I haven't see any pop up locally, and those I have seen not so local are all 8 ohms.

[Jimbilly]

I used to haul around an Eden 410xlt (98 pounds?), carrying it up and down stairs, -ugh!, those were the thing to have for a while there.  I had two Eden 210t's for a while (those stacked pretty well), at least one 210xlt for a bit. The Eden was always blowing tweeters, for no apparent reason, which I didn't really care about anyway. 

Quite a while ago I got a GK Neo 2x12 (first gen neo I think, 46 pounds iirc). I've been really happy with this 212 for about 15 years now, I usually turn the tweeter 'off'. I had a 1x15 Neo to go with it for a while, but I don't really play loud often or outdoors, the 1x15 did sound really huge with the 212.  I have a variety of amps, my favorite is a '68 Ampeg B25, but it's only 50 watts ish.  I also like my old rack setup with a Stewart Audio "world 1.6" pa type power amp, and a couple of preamps.   If I were to need loud, I'd add a single 15 cab, and I wouldn't bother with Neo for the single 15, the weight savings from just one speaker wouldn't be all that much.

 - to your original question, to my recollection, the GK neo 2x12 sounds every bit as good and loud as the old Eden 410xlt.

[HAMERMAN]

My main amp is a GK MB212-II combo and I am very happy with it. The 2-12 setup gives me everything I want and the whole rig only weighs 41 pounds. I think the 12" is a perfect compromise of the low end of a 15" and the snap of a 10".  I am a fan of the "modern" GK sound and this does that well, I am not sure how it would be if you are going for more of a vintage sound. The only gripe I could see is if you want an effects loop since this doesn't have one. I sometimes run an Pod Go before mine and do not miss the effects loop.

[Jimbilly]

A beginner bass player friend just got an older GK neo 210 combo (largely on my recommendation), it sounds pretty good even though one speaker had been changed, it was stupid cheap on offerup. He wanted to be able to rattle his windows, so he added a 1x15 GK cab (also silly cheap on craigs or offerup), and he can rattle his windows just fine now, for around $350 in amps/cabs.  

  Also on the topic of lightweight: I recently bought a TC Electronic BQ250 amp head, it is 4 pounds and 4 oz on my scale. So far it seems quite good, but I'm going to play it more before giving any real recommendation on it.

[tbonesullivan]

The cabinet is going to be used with either a Mesa Boogie TT-800 or a Gallien-Krueger Fusion 800S. I am still going back and forth between the two amps, but the G-K has so many voicing controls that it almost makes my head hurt. Also the push button voicing switches are something I would have much rather had as a mini switch, in case those eventually break.

I'd also probably use it with a power amp for running my Sansamp pedalboard. I do have a power amp that goes to 1000 watts max at 4 ohms, so Having that extra headroom would definitely be good, even if I never use it. I could also use that with my Geddy Lee preamp.

I ended up ordering the G-K 4x10 4Ohm, as there was a demo unit at sweetwater for $150 cheaper. Now to sell off my old carvin stack, which I will probably get like $400 total for.