While on modes

[m chops]

Ok. I was listening/trying to figure out the solo in Ride My See - Saw. The solo is mostly the notes of the F scale. It is being played primarily over a C, dropping to a Bb and back to C.

Playing the notes of a F major scale over a C major chord is some sort of mode. What is it?

I've been fighting with this stuff for a couple years now, and I still don't have a handle on it.

Thanks.

[KeyOfZ]

That would be FMajor - Ionian mode I believe.

The C (C7 if it has a Bb in it) chord is the 5th Chord in the FMajor scale.

If you wanted to play the C chords mode in that key it would be C Mixolydian (I think).

Edit: I re-read your question, Playing the notes from the FMajor scale over a CMajor chord is the C Mixolydian scale.

[Abaco]

Modes for Dummies (like me)---

One way to think of modes that worked for me is this: You already know the major scale, right? Now, play a C Major scale. Now, start it from the second note in the scale - that's D Dorian. Dorian is the second mode. Start from the third note - there's your third mode (the name escapes me). That's a simple way of looking at it, so I'll just stop there.

[salem]

To make it even simpler: the song is in the key of F. Thus, the F major scale is used with all the chords in the song.

[jujisque]

To make it even simpler: the song is in the key of F. Thus, the F major scale is used with all the chords in the song.

I guess I really don't know the song, but this is rarely true. It's all those darn secondary dominants and tri-tone substitutions that get in the way.

[seeker]

I'm not sure if these help, but I put them together to help me figure the diatonic stuff out. First is a crosswalk of keys versus what chords can be played in that key. Second is a layout of the modes, which are just the same repeating pattern with different starting points in a key.

[salem]

To make it even simpler: the song is in the key of F.  Thus, the F major scale is used with all the chords in the song.

I guess I really don't know the song, but this is rarely true. It's all those darn secondary dominants and tri-tone substitutions that get in the way.

You're right, it's not always true, but in a '60s pop song it is very possible.

[seeker]

Modes.

[jujisque]

You're right, it's not always true, but in a '60s pop song it is very possible.

hahaha, you make a very good point

[m chops]

Thanks, Gents.

[bobbymack]

The C (C7 if it has a Bb in it) chord is the 5th Chord in the FMajor scale.

If you wanted to play the C chords mode in that key it would be C Mixolydian (I think).

Yep, the key of the song is key(??? )...

Key of F, C is the 5th degree / note / chord of that scale, so you want to play the 5th mode of F which is C Mixolydian...which is simply an F scale starting and resolving to the C.

The stuff can be confusing, but Matt Smith's Chop Shop book will clear it up for you in no time...buy it.

[JordanL]

The C (C7 if it has a Bb in it) chord is the 5th Chord in the FMajor scale.

The stuff can be confusing, but Matt Smith's Chop Shop book will clear it up for you in no time...buy it.

I'll second Matt's chop shop book.

Try and relate the Modes to the sounds that each produces- it makes all the math a little less confusing. I learned the modes when I was interested in the music of the Grateful Dead-it made it much easier when I related certain modes to the sound of specific songs. Modes are relatively easy to play, but hard to grasp initially. If you've learned how to harmonize the major scale its easier to see chord/scale relationships.

Ionian-the major scale

Dorian Minor-a pretty scale and somewhat Jazzy-Santana's Oye Como Va(actually titio punte I think)

Phrygian-Spanish sounding-Dimeola used this alot

Lydian - happy an alternative to major scale-substitutes b5/#11 for the 4-used in a lot of childrens songs.

Mixolydian-=aka the Dominant 7th scale - bluesy or spacy.

Aeolian Natural minor

Locrian - somewhat strange and exotic sounding. usually heard in fusion

[Richard]

The C (C7 if it has a Bb in it) chord is the 5th Chord in the FMajor scale.

The stuff can be confusing, but Matt Smith's Chop Shop book will clear it up for you in no time...buy it.

I'll second Matt's chop shop book.

Try and relate the Modes to the sounds that each produces- it makes all the math a little less confusing. I learned the modes when I was interested in the music of the Grateful Dead-it made it much easier when I related certain modes to the sound of specific songs. Modes are relatively easy to play, but hard to grasp initially. If you've learned how to harmonize the major scale its easier to see chord/scale relationships.

Ionian-the major scale

Dorian Minor-a pretty scale and somewhat Jazzy-Santana's Oye Como Va(actually titio punte I think)

Phrygian-Spanish sounding-Dimeola used this alot

Lydian - happy an alternative to major scale-substitutes b5/#11 for the 4-used in a lot of childrens songs.

Mixolydian-=aka the Dominant 7th scale - bluesy or spacy.

Aeolian Natural minor

Locrian - somewhat strange and exotic sounding. usually heard in fusion

I think you're right, this is a more useful way of looking at modes than thinking of them solely as spin-offs of the major scale. To get the sounds of each mode in your head, it's useful to figure them out *from the same starting point*. When you do it as C ionian, D dorian, E phrygian, etc., people often wonder, well, what's the difference, they're all the same notes. Going from the same starting point clarifies the differences better IMO.

E ionian: E F# G# A B C# D# E

E lydian: E F# G# A# B C# D# E

E mixolydian: E F# G# A B C# D E

E dorian: E F# G A B C# D E

E aeolian: E F# G A B C D E

E phrygian: E F G A B C D E

E locrian: E F G A Bb C D E

Then, if you can relate the modes, as you say, to specific types of sounds you hear in songs, that will help reinforce it. A lot of rock, pop, and folk is actually, in a sense, more modally based than it is conventionally major-minor. For instance, supposed you have a song with a tonal center of E, but the only three chords are E, D, and A. You could hear that as being in E mixolydian (it can't be in A if A is not the tonal center).

[mattb]

Geeze, I'm a dunce compared to yous guys.