zzzdat Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 New bike guy,Love it, This weekend I picked a direction and went, used road signs to navigate around the country roads, no rhyme or reason for a destination, just went.A total of almost 300 miles. A new passion.Thats all, just had to say.Cool BeansGene
JGale Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 How does a group ride work? I'm coming from the USCF world where group rides are segmented by ability. Does that carry over? ROute, mileage agreed upon at the outset...Ed2aD: No peletons I hope?
cynic Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Ed2aD: No peletons I hope? and no cobblestones! The group rides I've been a part of are loosely planned, and generally led either by someone with GPS or familiar with the area. Formation wise, the typical stagger always works, opening up the distance to ensure a safe single-file in the twisties.
tbonesullivan Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 How does a group ride work? I'm coming from the USCF world where group rides are segmented by ability. Does that carry over? ROute, mileage agreed upon at the outset...Ed2aD: No peletons I hope?Usually on a motorcycle they are also somewhat segmented by ability. While there is no pedaling involved (for most) there is still the fatigue issue. You've got your daily riders who ride rain shine night or day, and then your weekend warriors, and then your enthusiasts. Not everyone would love to go tearing around country curves or chewing up interstate slab for hours on end.What they usually do is post a ride, with a route, and you decide if you want to go. Rides are space limited, because it's just a giant PAIN to keep more than 8 or 10 motorcycles together. Also there is usually a rest stop and/or meal stop, so it's kinda not cool to descend on small restaurants with 20 motorcycles (if you have two groups). Often we'll have a "spirited ride" group, and a "laid back ride" group for two group rides. Same route, different speed. The route is loaded into GPSs that can handle itineraries through TYRE, so everyone follows the leader, and there is usually a sweep at the back of the group with another GPS, in case the group gets broken up. We're supposed to "breadcrumb" at corners if the group gets separated but some people have trouble with the concept. There really are a wide variety of skill levels so we try to have a bunch of different types of rides.There's one guy who has EARLY sunday morning brunch rides that involve blasting off down county roads in North West NJ. He's doing a 650 Mile butt burner in a week or so. 650 miles in a day is a good long day in a car, but on a motorcycle that's hardcore. Of course, it's not IRON BUTT RALLY hardcore, but those guys are legitimately insane. I couldn't do 11 days straight of 1000 miles a day in a CAR, much less a motorcycle.
JGale Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 So...pretty much like bike club rides, except the pedaling thing. The breadcrumb problem appears to be an inherent property of groups.Ed2aD: I still maintain, after 3000 miles or so, that the most efficient peleton size on flat roads with wind is 12 riders. I like that it scales (somewhat.)
JES1680 Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 NICE! I may have posted this here before, but I do love me some Goose!
tbonesullivan Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 NICE! I would like Guzzi's more if they didn't put the dang OIL FILTER INSIDE THE OIL PAN. I mean, wtf? Who thought that was a good idea?Other than that though, they are great bikes. Only issue with them is the same as Triumph, Ducati, Victory, BMW, etc: lack of dealer and service centers. In NJ there is ONE Moto Guzzi dealership. They also sell Aprilia, Victory, Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, and now Ducati, who made them have a big space hogging display if they wanted to carry dukes.I chose an FJR because there are Yamaha dealerships everywhere, same with most of the Japanese companies. I don't have to worry about being two states away from the nearest place that knows how to service my ride.
JES1680 Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 Yeah the filter inside the pan is a BAD design. You can get a conversion kit that makes it accessible from outside, but we really shouldn't have to do that. They are very stable on the highway. I hit a giant snapping turtle with mine at about 75 mpg glanced the front wheel off it's shell, tank slapper but I got it under control and kept it upright. Dang turtles!
tbonesullivan Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 Yeah the filter inside the pan is a BAD design. You can get a conversion kit that makes it accessible from outside, but we really shouldn't have to do that. They are very stable on the highway. I hit a giant snapping turtle with mine at about 75 mpg glanced the front wheel off it's shell, tank slapper but I got it under control and kept it upright. Dang turtles!It probably didn't suit the Italian sense of aesthetics, so they couldn't put it on the back or the sides. Looks like there is plenty of room on the back of the pain for it, I think anyway.But, every motorcycle brand has it's design quirks. Like how Harley's engines run so damn hot, or why for some reason they designed them to run on Premium, or why H-D engines need three different types of oil: Engine oil, gear box oil, and primary drive oil.
JES1680 Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 Yeah the filter inside the pan is a BAD design. You can get a conversion kit that makes it accessible from outside, but we really shouldn't have to do that. They are very stable on the highway. I hit a giant snapping turtle with mine at about 75 mpg glanced the front wheel off it's shell, tank slapper but I got it under control and kept it upright. Dang turtles!It probably didn't suit the Italian sense of aesthetics, so they couldn't put it on the back or the sides. Looks like there is plenty of room on the back of the pain for it, I think anyway.But, every motorcycle brand has it's design quirks. Like how Harley's engines run so damn hot, or why for some reason they designed them to run on Premium, or why H-D engines need three different types of oil: Engine oil, gear box oil, and primary drive oil.Some easy answers to the HD. They run hot because they are so lean to meet EPA standards, and the motors have gotten so big that they put out a lot of heat, not to mention that the rear cylinder gets virtually no cooling air as it's blocked by the front cylinder. The rear one can really cook your inner thighs. I had a Buell and they had a fan under the seat that blew air at the rear head. Problem was the supper heated air was directed at your inner right thigh.They have to run on premium to minimize detonation. Take an air cooled motor with a fairly high compression ratio get it really hot and it doesn't take much to get detonation or pre-ignition. In fact I'd be surprised if any bike manufacturer didn't recommend premium.They actually have Syn3 HD oil that is rated for all 3 holes now. I use it in the primary and trans, but use Amsoil or Mobile 1 in the motor.
tbonesullivan Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 Some easy answers to the HD. They run hot because they are so lean to meet EPA standards, and the motors have gotten so big that they put out a lot of heat, not to mention that the rear cylinder gets virtually no cooling air as it's blocked by the front cylinder. The rear one can really cook your inner thighs. I had a Buell and they had a fan under the seat that blew air at the rear head. Problem was the supper heated air was directed at your inner right thigh.They have to run on premium to minimize detonation. Take an air cooled motor with a fairly high compression ratio get it really hot and it doesn't take much to get detonation or pre-ignition. In fact I'd be surprised if any bike manufacturer didn't recommend premium.They actually have Syn3 HD oil that is rated for all 3 holes now. I use it in the primary and trans, but use Amsoil or Mobile 1 in the motor.Victory motorcycles are known for running quite a bit cooler, according to people in my group who have owned both. They have a 9.4 to 1 compression ratio, though they also require premium.the current H-D Engine compression ratio is 9.6 to 1. That is hardly in the "high performance" or "high compression" ratio area. The honda nighthawk is rated at 9.3 to 1, and it was designed to run on regular gas. (86 octane). it is also an air-cooled engine design. The Honda CBR600RR has a 12.2 to 1 compression ratio. now THAT is a ratio that would require 93 octane.You would be surprised to know that in the manual for the FJR1300, the octane requirement is a minimum of 86, with a compression ratio of 10.8 to 1. The same is true for the honda goldwing, which has a 9.8 to 1 ratio. These are both water-cooled designs though, so maybe that has something to do with it.
JES1680 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Some easy answers to the HD. They run hot because they are so lean to meet EPA standards, and the motors have gotten so big that they put out a lot of heat, not to mention that the rear cylinder gets virtually no cooling air as it's blocked by the front cylinder. The rear one can really cook your inner thighs. I had a Buell and they had a fan under the seat that blew air at the rear head. Problem was the supper heated air was directed at your inner right thigh.They have to run on premium to minimize detonation. Take an air cooled motor with a fairly high compression ratio get it really hot and it doesn't take much to get detonation or pre-ignition. In fact I'd be surprised if any bike manufacturer didn't recommend premium.They actually have Syn3 HD oil that is rated for all 3 holes now. I use it in the primary and trans, but use Amsoil or Mobile 1 in the motor.Victory motorcycles are known for running quite a bit cooler, according to people in my group who have owned both. They have a 9.4 to 1 compression ratio, though they also require premium.the current H-D Engine compression ratio is 9.6 to 1. That is hardly in the "high performance" or "high compression" ratio area. The honda nighthawk is rated at 9.3 to 1, and it was designed to run on regular gas. (86 octane). it is also an air-cooled engine design. The Honda CBR600RR has a 12.2 to 1 compression ratio. now THAT is a ratio that would require 93 octane.You would be surprised to know that in the manual for the FJR1300, the octane requirement is a minimum of 86, with a compression ratio of 10.8 to 1. The same is true for the honda goldwing, which has a 9.8 to 1 ratio. These are both water-cooled designs though, so maybe that has something to do with it.Yes water cooled motors will run higher compression and lower octane as water cooled motors have a much more narrow heat operating range than air cooled motors. HD motors basic design harkens back to the 30s. It's their heritage so they can't really change too much without offending the "faithful". They are working within some pretty tough boundaries for looks, sound, design and efficiency. Is an HD motor an engineering marvel yes if you live in 1950, but in todays world they are pushing the limits of technology to keep an antiquated design alive. Now I love HD motors because they are visceral and have a great feel to them but I don't expect them to be something they are not. Modern, fast, hi-tech, etc... And yes that supprises me that any bike mfg would recommend anything other than premium. Even on water-cooled bikes.
tbonesullivan Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Well, the thing is there is no gain to running a higher octane of gas than is required. The same is with a car. With the higher resistance to detonation, you run the risk of not burning all the fuel, which leads to fouling of the spark plugs, as well as carbon build up. I post a lot at the FJR forums, and we get people all the time coming in and saying how they are only getting 40mpg on the highway, which is way low for an FJR. Then the question comes "well what gas are you using" and it's usually "premium baby! Only the best for my precious".Well, then we let them in on the secret, and they check the manual, and then they change to regular, and see the 50+ mpg that a FJR should get on a highway. The only reason to ever use a higher octane than the recommended on any gasoline engine is if you start to get engine knocking, which can be caused by a number of things. One of those is actually carbon deposits, which can lead to early detonation, so if you use premium on an engine designed and tuned for regular, you may end up having to keep using it, until you decarbonize with seafoam or something similar.I did read a pretty good article though, regarding the future of air-cooled engines in motorcycling. They compared it to the struggle that Porsche had years ago, convincing the faithful that they had reached the end of air-cooled engine designs, and had to go for a water cooled system. BMW and Moto Guzzi will also have the same issue as well, as they also have their iconic boxer twin and horizontally opposed V twin. There's only so much that can be done with oil coolers and fins, especially if you want a modern, aerodynamic platform.The Japanese cruisers, and even H-D now, have shown that you can still have a great looking bike, but have modern features like EFI and Water Cooling. I'm sure they can figure out a way for it to still make those "tick tick tick" noises as the bike cools down. They'll still SOUND just like a Harley. And they can still have fins all over the engine. Heck the frame probably wouldn't need to be modified.What would be gained? Better reliability. Better performance. Less burned legs. And the ability to be stuck in traffic without your engine self destructing.
tbonesullivan Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 On another note, here are some pictures of past iron butt rally dashboards. Most are pretty far out. The rest are completely insane.http://motorcyclewanderings.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-dashboards-of-ibr-2013.htmland a goldwing that has been turned into something elsehttp://www.gregrice.com/rallys/2013ibr/2013ibrwing.htmland anotherhttp://selil.com/archives/3671The roads they take and the time constraints mean that they go a lot of places where there is NO light. Rain or Shine. Night or day. NUTS.
Question
zzzdat
New bike guy,
Love it,
This weekend I picked a direction and went, used road signs to navigate around the country roads, no rhyme or reason for a destination, just went.
A total of almost 300 miles. A new passion.
Thats all, just had to say.
Cool Beans
Gene
65 answers to this question
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.