Gibson using 300K pots instead of 500K now?

[crunchee]

I've heard about this just recently in Google searches and in passing in other forums...what's the details? When/what year did Gibson start using 300K pots instead of 500K? Which models now use 300K pots, and which models still use 500K pots? WHY did Gibson start doing this? Cost cutting? Lack of supply? Something else? Is there a big difference between the two, sonically? If so, what is it? TIA!

[velorush]

I know my '91 Gibby came stock with 300K (and linear taper [rather than audio taper] at that). No idea when it began and I have no conclusive insider information on why they changed (wouldn't be cost cutting - as AFAIK they should be the same cost), but if I had to guess it would be they were trying to increase decrease the resonant peak of their pickups and move the peak to a higher frequency (two separate effects of lowering the volume pot's load). Maybe Armitage will chime in as he is the resident expert on such things. His posts have taught me much.

That makes me guess (further) that the change might have taken place in the keyboard-drenched 80's to allow Gibsons to be a bit more present in a band mix.

I replaced my entire wiring harness with RS Guitarworks pots and was overwhelmingly pleased with the difference for just a few bucks: 500k AUDIO taper volume pots (choose your brand) FTW!

Edited for correction. Armitage has taught me much, but I can't seem to retain it for very long... at least not as early in the AM as I typed this (while simultaneously trying to work). I did leave my mistake for the world to see. Maybe we can all learn a little something.

[murkat]

they use whatever is on the stock shelf.

Not un common that~

A. they order the wrong part

B. they use up what has been sitting there for sometime

C. they do fuck up all the time

D. Suppliers will not ship until debt is paid (happens alot there) and they use what they have.

case in point,

GCS releases the Axxess LP with push pull coil tap tone pots.

they order the wrong P/P pot. ....

Most of them have a 25k tone P/P pot

When I was there, I had brought it to there attention.... "run it with till they are gone" was the reply.

many fuckups, many all the time.

A. Historic Firebirds with the wrong pickguard screws.

B. Clapton 335, bodies made in Japan.... (shhhh, it's a secret...)

C. LPC's filled with epoxy

D. historics with linear vol/ audio tone pots

E. oh, it goes on and on...

[crunchee]

Found a three year old post on the My Les Paul page, featuring Armitage:

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/85289-300k-pots-compared-500k.html

It answers some of my questions, but not all. Still curious about why Gibson did it, as there must've been a purpose, IMO...unless, like Murkat says, they just used whatever was available. Still, I'm surprised that the change (or substitution, or whatever) didn't get more attention when it happened. I had never heard about it, I always thought Gibson used 500K pots on anything with a humbucker! From what I've been able to find out via Google, it seems to confirm what Velorush said, that this has been going on for a LONG time. So, is it just the Historics that get the 500K pots as standard equipment, or are the specs on everything else just more "subject to change" than anybody ever thought?

It's kinda funny, when I see posts about people trying to get a better sound from Fender '72 Tele Deluxe/Custom/Thinline RIs...apparently some Fender players don't like the 250K pots that are stock in those guitars, and tend to swap them out for 500K pots. From what I can tell, the HB pickups on those RIs aren't actual "Wide Range" HBs, they're just standard HBs in a "Wide Range" housing. But I never would have suspected that Gibson had been using 300K pots (which doesn't seem that much different than 250K pots IMO) with HB equipped guitars.

[raythewrench]

Murkat , I hope you don't have to seek asylum in belieze for divulging gibbys past " goings on" LOL .but very informative , but I know what your saying I have a 02 lp gold top std. Sn 00002xxx called gibby told me what it is , I said no gold top std in 02 only CS right ,he said yes and then I said what day is 000 he said I dunno maybe it was for NAMM , bought it from a long time gibby dealer too , monster effin player.

[Armitage]

^{According to Gibson's published schematics, they went to 300k pots in the mid '70s. They did it to fatten up the tone on their guitars. Once amp manufacturers started hoping up the gain a bit, they didn't need that squawking hi mid that a 500k pot provides, though some people love that extra high end. They still use 500k pots in the vintage stuff to be period correct. 300k pots aren't cheaper or easier to install.}

[crunchee]

Thanks, Armitage! That makes perfect sense! That's also very good to know about, as I have a guitar project I'm putting together...I HAD been planning to put 500K pots in it to replace the 250K pots it already has, to compliment vintage-style Alnico II HB pickups that it's going to get. Problem is, the guitar body is heavy ash, and it's got PLENTY of mids and is plenty bright, even acoustically. So, looks like I'll keep the 250K pots for now, install the newer HB pickups, and see/hear how it goes from there. Thanks again!