'05 Standard Custom still available.

[peedenmark7]

no les paul worth a custom hamer....though likely an easier sell... get some cash on top.

[kizanski]

no les paul worth a custom hamer....though likely an easier sell... get some cash on top.

Sorry dude, but that's not correct.

There are lots of new model Les Pauls worth more than the $2150 that he's asking for his Standard. Quality is not the question, unfortunately.

Used flametop R8s typically command $2400 and up, while you could add another grand for an R9.

He was offered an R8 for the Standard and, if he is interested in a Les Paul, he should grab it. While he has been having a hard time selling his Standard, any R8 without issues will sell for at least $2200 in minutes.

[hamersandstrats]

Is the r8 a flametop? If so, grab it. Even if its one of the newer plaintops, take the R8. They are great guitars with nice fat necks and great tone. And resale is not an issue.

[peedenmark7]

kizanski,

I hate gibsons... I have had a ton of lespauls over the yrs, from a '54 gold top to some of the '70s deluxe stuff...

I personally never liked them , found them vastly over rated.

always wondered why

[other than the assumed inherent mojo packed into every new gibson]

why anyone would consider one over a hamer of even the most entry level kind...

but thats what makes the world go round. hence my comment.

however , I do what they bring and also realize the assumed resale value difference between a gibson and a hamer.

... but at the same time, he is also taking a fairly good hit on the standard....

if hes gonna take a trade based off of his cash price he should get a little cash on top....

he would still have to sell the lespaul in theory anyway....

plus the hamer market hasnt really changed much, its always been a buyers driven market unless a 4 digit std or something special...

the lespaul/gibson market has fluctuated in great swings over the last 30 yrs.

nI was buying nice les pauls for around $200 in the mid '80s///

no digs or b.s.-ing , just my advice/opinion...

[kizanski]

however , I do what they bring and also realize the assumed resale value difference between a gibson and a hamer.

... but at the same time, he is also taking a fairly good hit on the standard....

if hes gonna take a trade based off of his cash price he should get a little cash on top....

he would still have to sell the lespaul in theory anyway....

plus the hamer market hasnt really changed much, its always been a buyers driven market unless a 4 digit std or something special...

the lespaul/gibson market has fluctuated in great swings over the last 30 yrs.

nI was buying nice les pauls for around $200 in the mid '80s///

no digs or b.s.-ing , just my advice/opinion...

Yea, he's taking a good hit on the Standard because that's what happens when you buy a new Hamer and decide to sell it. Their resale value is not anything like Gibson's. Again, this isn't a quality or a value question; just dolars and cents.

Why would a person selling (or looking to trade) an R8 (which in most cases is worth more than what DEMENTED is asking for his Standard) throw money into the deal when, on the used market, he is trading down? That just doesn't make sense.

He might have to sell the Paul. he also might want to keep it. I don't know what he wants, but the fact is, if and when he does decide to sell the Paul, he can do so quickly and he'll get more back then he is asking now. This is reason enough to make this trade.

You're right. the Hamer market has not changed much. If anything it has improved, but not enough for him to not "take a good hit." He's going to take a hit no matter what. now it's just abuot making the best trade that he can so that he can cut his losses.

[DEMENTED]

The R8 in question is an '05 Plaintop, mint cond. w/ all the Gibson goodies. I am taking a hit any way I look at it if I sell the Standard. If I trade for the R8 I am doing OK, plus, like Kiz said I will be better off resale wise in the long run. I had never played a Standard or Gibby Explorer before ordering my Standard....probably a dumb move on my part because I instantly didn't like how the Standard hangs on me. That is the only reason I have put it up for sale...I just look at it, it's beautiful but uncomfortable for me to play. I am ,on the otherhand , comfortable with LP type guitars So I figured I would move in that direction.

In the time I have had this up for sale I have only had one cash offer...quite surprising to me but oh well. It was close but not close enough. The people here aren't stupid, list was $4090...minus your dealer discount and you can figure what it cost, it's as new, no wait for it to be built, $2150 shipped and I'm losing because of the uncomfortable for me ergonomics. I am starting to think I'll have to trade for the R8 even though I really wanted a flametop...ugh

[jisham]

The R8 plaintops I've played have all been pretty kick ass. Take the trade now why it's on the table if you really can't deal with the Standard Custom. If you don't like the R8, I guarantee you'll sell it in a heartbeat.

[DEMENTED]

The R8 plaintops I've played have all been pretty kick ass.  Take the trade now why it's on the table if you really can't deal with the Standard Custom.  If you don't like the R8, I guarantee you'll sell it in a heartbeat.

You are probably quite right Jaye, I just wonder if there will be a demand for Plaintop reissues should I decide to sell that in the future. I know Flametops sell no problem.....

[kizanski]

You are probably quite right Jaye, I just wonder in there will be a demand for Plaintop reissues should I decide to sell that in the future. I know Flametops sell no problem.....

Brian, you'd have to try really hard to get less than $2300/$2400 for an '05 R8 Plaintop.

If you are looking for a more "LP type guitar," this is a no brainer.

[mattb]

Get the R8 Brian. You know you want it. Then I can buy it off you next week

[Brownsound]

Good or bad LPs tend to hold value pretty well. I havent seen a screaming deal on a used LP since the baby boomers started to buy them up.

[peedenmark7]

the nirvana generation is now into lespauls...hence the stupid money they bring.

. prior to that . in the late '80s they sold for $250-400 if you were lucky....

sure youre getting some trickle down from different age groups but do soem simple math and you'll agree.

I had a mint '72 .p. custom cherry burst with gold h-ware that I couldnt give away in '88...

and that guitar was toally untouched

everything cycles... right now gibsons are bringing good money.. long term?

I would say hamers, deans , jacksons , charvels , and schecters are a better investment...

unless you are buying vintage vintage, you are buying todays reissues of some kind .

its not the boomers that are setting the current trend , ...they have the money for and in most cases are buying vintage.

its like the early '70s all over again... strats and l.p.'s abounding.....I enjoyed watching hamer , charvel , schecter and dean put a dent in the big 2's sales ....

much more to offer than the big 2 then and now.

we'll just have to wait for the next young upstart guitar co. to unseat grandpas oldsmobile again...

[jisham]

Whether you love or hate Gibson, they will always be a better investment (if that's why you buy guitars?) than hamers, deans , jacksons , charvels , and schecters.

[peedenmark7]

I will definately agree they are a quicker turn... for now.

long term investment with the new ones is a crap shoot like everything else.

[hamersandstrats]

No matter what, you can buy a new Les Paul today and sell it in 4-5 years for the same money. Maybe people were not buying 70s LPs in the 80s, but thats the way it is now. If you think Hamers, Charvels, etc. are good investments, you are going to die a poor man.

[kizanski]

No matter what, you can buy a new Les Paul today and sell it in 4-5 years for the same money. Maybe people were not buying 70s LPs in the 80s, but thats the way it is now. If you think Hamers, Charvels, etc. are good investments, you are going to die a poor man.

EXACTLY!

[peedenmark7]

touchy.....someone here wouldnt happen to have a stake in this trade ?

re;

charvels,

you may have missed the charvel boat or whole point of them back in the day.

that happens, I have not been on every boat when it came in either, no shame in that....

but dont even begin to tell me the $250-500 stratheads I bought 18 yrs ago and most not even 5-10 yrs ago , now selling for $5-8 K arent a good investment ...even the cheapo pointies are fetching stupid money.

maybe watch that market if youre not fully informed...

thats a much faster increase than vintage gibson or fender back in the '80's or todays versions "assumed value"...

[ok I'll give ya the '83 korina stuff]

re;

dying poor , I have to bite....highly unlikely... but thanks for sharing/caring

my whole point was, not to offend, but state he should get some money on top the r8 as he still has to sell it, if he doesnt like it.

correct ?...

from what I gather he wants a flame not a plain top.

who trades a guitar even steven that one isnt 100% into,for their cash sell price ? not too many that I have dealt with.

geeez, I think I will make my exit from this topic....its getting a bit stuffy and I am not interested in getting into a silly back and forth p!ssing match over guitar economics.

[DEMENTED]

No, Kiz has no interest in my guitar...that I know of. I don't understand all this commotion and still no takers on the guitar! Hahaha! I like Les Pauls, I like Hamers, hell, I even like Charvels. I would love to get the difference in cash on the trade deal but know that won't happen. I know I will play the LP though. Like I said, this is about ergonomics, not a quality issue. I believe Hamers to be of better quality than most Gibsons but that won't stop me from owning both.

Now, someone buy this guitar.

[Guest pirateflynn]

I don't think guitars should be considered for investment...........they are for personal enjoyment or tools of the trade. You can make more money doing almost anything else.

Lightning strikes every great once in awhile (and it's too late for those) but in reality we are talking peanuts.

Buy a guitar for the fun of it and forget the rest.

Now, someone buy DEMENTED'S Standard and have some fun!

[kizanski]

touchy.....someone here wouldnt happen to have a stake in this trade ?

No one that I know of.

my whole point was, not to offend, but state he should get some money on top the r8 as he still has to sell it, if he doesnt like it.

correct ?...

from what I gather he wants a flame not a plain top.

No. INcorrect. These things are worth what they're worth. In this case, a Gibson '58 Reissue Plaintop is worth more than Brian's Standard Custom. If the Standard were worth more money, it would have SOLD for more money...and why hasn't it sold at the low price where it is at now, while I'm at it?

Is it "worth" what he's asking? Well, yes and no. "No," for the opint made above. "Yes," because anyone ordering a Standard close to what he has there would be silly to pay top dollar for a new one when his is still brandie new condition.

When trading guitars (and yes, people often trade "even steven"), you are bound by the value of the instruments and nothing else. If he doesn't want a plaintop, it doesn't make the guitar worth any less than it actually worth.

For the record, I'm not getting "touchy" (if it was even me that you were referring to), I was just trying to give Brian some unsolicited advice. To advise him to try to get cash on top of the trade because "he might not like the guitar" is unrealistic and highly unlikely.

Would YOU if you were the other guy?

[jerseydrew]

I've sold and traded many guitars in the past few years. Though Hamer guitars are better quality than the Gibsons, it's much easier to sell a Gibson if you have to liquidate fast. That's the honest truth.

[sonicblue1960]

The reality is this...

Standard Customs are worth $1400-$1700 ON THIS BOARD. Period.

It's unfortunate but true. Of course we know that there is usually no comparisson between Hamers and most Gibsons, but the majority of great rock icons and rock records used /recorded with LPs during the '60s -''80s, hence the consistent value.

Can anyone at all tell me what great records were cut with a Hamer( other than CheapTrick)?

Really, I would love to know. Hamers are great guitars, a way better value than a Gibson, but they are only COPIES of Gibsons for the most part.

I LOVE my Std Custom that Uncle Greg had done for me, but my all black R8 Standard is a better sounding guitar, all day long.( my all black R8, though, is only 1 of 7 that Gibson made in '97, to match the 7 custom ordered Black LPs that were ordered in '58 and '59)

Make a deal, move on to the next, and just play guitar. We all take a hit now and again( tell me about it, I just took a $4500 hit from Fedex!!),

but Brian, you've been offered alot of great deals to get away from a guitar you don't play, so take it on the chin and know better than to buy a guitar you've never played before.

My 2 cents

[baj2k]

Can anyone at all tell me what great records were cut with a Hamer( other than CheapTrick)?

What about all of the Judist Priest stuff, didn't they use some Hamer's... no wait I'm sorry you said great... never mind...

But seriously as much as I hate to admit it, he's correct. From my experience here's a usuable fresh out-of-the-box Hamer resale valuation equation:

Current Market Price (this is not what you paid, it's the current Hamer Dealer's discounted retail price) - 50% +/- 5% (desirability factor)

Then subtract 2% or 3% per year depreciation after that, depending on how "relic'ing" you do, which is a bad thing on Hamer's

That'll get you in the ballpark, pricewise...

Really great guitars, absolutely horrible resale, think used Yugo then take it down a notch

[Guest pirateflynn]

But seriously as much as I hate to admit it, he's correct. From my experience here's a usuable fresh out-of-the-box Hamer resale valuation equation:

Price paid - 50% +/- 5% (desirability factor)

Then subtract 2% or 3% per year depreciation after that depending on how "relic'ing" you do, which is a bad thing on Hamer's

That'll get you in the ballpark, pricewise...

Really great guitars, absolutely horrible resale, think used Yugo then take it down a notch 

My experiance was different.

I bought my Triple Threat for $2800 and sold it for $2300, I believe that's a 17% loss.

My first new guitar in 10 years and boy was it beautiful, sounded great too. I wanted to keep it. I tried and tried but I just could not get used to that '59 neck carve.

The guitar game is a little like horse tradin'.........you win some and you lose some. In all my guitar and amp deals, I'd say I'm about even or maybe I'm a little on the down side.

I'll continue to buy most of my guitars used but I will never say never to a new purchase or even a custom order. Hamers are more than all right with me, even brand new ones.

edited to add: Look at me ................ with 800 posts.

[baj2k]

I bought my Triple Threat for $2800 and sold it for $2300, I believe that's a 17% loss.

When did you sell it? I'm guessing months ago, probably longer. There are dealers out there who'll sell a new TT for around $2000 now (Current Price), so I doubt you'd get more than $1600 for it now (which would be -43%, damn close to what my equation predicts). I had no offers over $1650 on the one I just sold and it was a quatersawn 10 top with $300 WCR pups in it.

Count yourself lucky, you bailed on the "TT" stock before the market correction...