Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame

I wasn't trying to start an argument. Just clarifying what expectations you get with the word "custom." I'm not in the market for custom for some time, real or not real. But someday I'll ask them for a Jeff Watson w/ Boomers.

I think this is the question that most of us here at the HFC want an answer to. Define "real". In this case: Real = you can get anything you want, within the limits of physics and common sense (i.e. Boomers) Not Real = you can "customize" from a limited list of options that they are willing to do. "Real" results in a unique guitar. "Not Real" results in a guitar that is only as unique as the other 100 guitars with the exact same options selected. Is it really "custom" to get to select chrome hardware instead of black? By definition, yes. In effect, no. Now, demanding to be able to have the knob moved 1/2" farther apart, and the input jack shifted 1" up, change the angle the neck leaves the body by 20 degrees, have 9 strings with a harp and built in wah pedal and the entire guitar made out of ebony with a solid-uranium fretboard...well, that goes beyond the limits of any custom shop, no matter how ambitious. At least, that's the way I see it.

I'm not in advertising, but I do understand what you're getting at. I didn't even realize Hamer existed 2 years ago. I had heard of them...vaguely...I had roughly equated them with Harmony as making a line of guitars from cheap/crappy entry-level up to a fairly decent value-priced semi-pro. Imagine my surprise to find this board and all the information I learned from here. But I gotta tell you: it took more than a month of reading here, Harmony Central, and other internet searches to figure out the differences between "Hamer USA" "Hamer" "Hamer Slammer Series" "Slammer by Hamer" and "Slammer pickups". From that perspective alone, Hamer has failed in marketing. Part of that, though, is Jol sticking to the original idea. They thought the guitars of the 70s were crap, down from the quality of 60s guitars and ***way*** down from the quality of vintage Gibsons and Fenders. They wanted to make new, modern guitars that sounded, looked, and felt as good or better than the old late 50s electric guitars. They marketed them to professionals. Not to make a big name for themselves, but (I think) because they wanted the joy of making a great guitar and seeing great players play them. In contrast, I think PRS wanted to increase the mass appeal of his guitars from the get-go. Hamer did some different things in marketing over the years, but it seems like Jol wants to get back to that original goal: making guitars only for those who truly appreciate what they are and can do. So the pricing may be for two reasons: - ensure they can sustain salaries of the builders while still making a profit despite low volume - clear out the "rif-raff" like me, who will probably never spend $5k on a guitar and probably wouldn't appreciate a Hamer at that price I'm not saying that *is* Jol's view. Even if it is, I'm not saying I agree with that view. But as far as speculation goes, I think it's worth considering as a possible motive...

I don't know how much endorsements influence me. Even as a guitarist, I never really paid attention to what guitar they played. I would note they played a Strat or LP or Jr or Superstrat style guitar and that's about it. My view towards guitar was always trying to find a good quality guitar for cheap that had been overlooked by the masses as they all went for Fenders and Gibbys. Hamers aren't as cheap as I might want, but they got it all over any other guitar I've seen in terms of quality. I am to the point now where I never have a tremor of doubt that a Hamer that's on the way won't be in perfect working order. It may be beat up, but it always works perfectly. Maybe I've been lucky? That confidence is worth more than any endorsement in the world. But aside from that, I admit that it is cool when a guitarist you like plays the same guitar as yours, or one you like. So for the brief time I was toying with the idea of building a Fernandes collection (they make surprisingly good guitars for a cheap price, but the quality still isn't as good as Hamer and there are too damn many of them to ever be worth anything), I was also extremely disappointed to find out that although Brad Gillis endorses Fernandes, and may use 'em as a backup, the guitar you always see him with is a Fender Strat, not a Fernandes. It's like finding out there is no Santa Claus, yanno? So I've finally come to the opinion that endorsements mean shit if you endorse a guitar only because they pay you or give you a free guitar. Meaning: the endorsement isn't a testimony to the guitar's quality, it is a cold-blooded business deal. An endorsement only has an effect on me if a guitarist I admire raves about the guitar's quality/sound. Or uses it for years/decades (like Steve Morse' EBMM guitar). Or a tone hound who doesn't rave about the guitar, but even just quietly chooses it over other guitars as the best tone-producing instrument. Like Tommy Shaw choosing Hamer guitars as better than Vintage Gibsons...but then going back to Gibson, flirting with Taylor a little bit, and then coming back to Hamer for the Tally. Whether he uses it exclusively or not, I don't know. But knowing for a fact he uses it onstage, instead of all the other guitars he might have chosen, matters to me. I'm extremely pleased and excited about Jon Kammerer guitars...I think that might be the next direction I go in collecting. But if I ever become a famous enough musician that someone interviews me, I will be sure and mention how f'n awesome Hamers are, and how you can see me play 'em in videos, how they provided a key part on the tone I got, how they make playing easy, how they got mojo, last forever, etc. And I will make sure I make it clear I never got a dime or a free guitar to say so.

Not to mention Winger.

I'm not really complaining about Hamer prices. I think I might be an excellent example of what is wrong with Hamer's marketing, though. I got into Hamer when I saw a beautiful guitar in a pawn shop. It had a good sound, and was $200. It was made by some company called Harmony or Hondo or Hamer...you know: one of those companies that makes crappy guitars but might have a semi-professional line or two just to have something to attract the ignorant. But it was a beautiful looking, sounding, and feeling guitar. For $200, it was just about the best guitar I'd ever played on. I had a Carvin that was pretty much its equal, but the Hamer had an extra sweetness in its tone...and an extra growl when played with a bit of distortion. So I researched Hamer. And researched Hamer. And researched Hamer. I finally found out that what I had was a Korean import version of a dang nice USA-made guitar that wasn't that well-known. So I started buying other import copies. (The next bit of stupidity is an atypical interlude: the lunacy is mine and mine alone) I was trying to find a great guitar at a rock-bottom price, something I could collect without breaking the bank. Maybe something good quality that just hadn't take off yet. But I was tired of some of my miscalculations that came from overestimating a guitar's worth. So I got a Guitar Blue Book. My problem? I believed the numbers in it. The only way I'd pay $800 or $1000 for a guitar was to flip it, and I believed the Blue Book when it said the guitars were worth close to $2000. Well, I didn't lose money on either sale...made $30 and $80, respectively. What it did for me, however, was two things: 1) It got me to join and hang out on this board, dedicated to Hamer. 2) It loosened me up a little bit in what I was willing to pay for a guitar. My limit went up to $400...then $500...then $700...$900...and even nearly $1100 for a Centaura I had fallen in love with at first sight. I know the $1100 Centaura won't play much differently than the other Centaura I got for $350 (or the ones I got for $500). It does have the Boomers and it is a Deluxe...so maybe it is worth it. It is worth it to me, though, and that's all that counts. But do you see what happened? I hang out on a board dedicated to Hamer. I read daily, and post almost as much. I have 8 Hamer USA guitars. I have another 4 import Hamers, and have owned/sold another 2 USAs and 4 imports. In those 8 USA and 4 import Hamers, I have just about all the Hamer I want. There are a few things that could tempt me: the legendary tree-fiddy USA Hamer of almost any description; an $800 Cali; a $500 FM Special Quilt; a $400 sustain block Special that's cosmetically beat up; a $700 Jeff Watson. But for all my postings, all my buying and selling of Hamer guitars, all the Hamers I'm keeping, and even all the guitars I would still buy if I stumbled across the right price: how much profit would Hamer see from it? Not a single thin dime. Sometimes I feel guilty about it. If I ever finish the damn book I'm writing and it earns at least $100k (I'm not certain which occurrence is actually more unlikely, to tell the truth), I'll treat myself to a custom-ordered Jeff Watson.

yep. gibson & fender were played by the classic rawk icons. PRS/ibanez/esp/jackson is in the hands of todays big players (along w/ gibson/fender). i honestly think if hamer did the pay to play endorsements they would have a higher profile. obviously the quality is there. yep. save the bling for TGP. yep. theres plenty o' used hamers that kick ass; bad for hamer, good for guys like me & harry. yeah, what is the deal about dissin' the headstocks? they look fine, its not ugly like a parker or a 4+2 music man, c'mon. +1 Headstocks are like cars: there are no real standards of what is good or ugly. But when a headstock style gets associated with quality, it becomes the standard of beauty. IMHO.

If you happen to hear about another bombing attack in Baghdad, I was safely away from all that.

6 Stages of Hamer Noob-ship: 1) Wait. You're saying that if all it has is "Hamer" on the headstock, it's not a USA entry-level? 2) Wait a second. The '95 Studio I just got off of eBay to flip isn't worth $1500? 3) I don't care, I like my import Hamer and I see no reason to spend so much more on a Hamer USA. 4) Okay, this may be my 5th USA Hamer, but it's definitely the last one. 5) Okay, this on is my last one. 6) Guys, I don't really believe those shorts were actually owned by Tommy Shaw. Okay, maybe that's just me...

But if you hear a guitar sound you really like, and you can tell which guitar is making it because the guitar has a big freaking logo on it or the guitarist says "thanks" in the liner notes, then you would probably start with that guitar to try and get the same sound. But you can't start with a Hamer to get that sound if none of your favorite guitarists are making your favorite tone on a Hamer.

I think it is due to marketing. They didn't have a truly guitar-god guitarist endorse them, which probably didn't help. But when I found the Korean Hamer Stellar 1 that seduced me into the Hamer world, I couldn't find clear descriptions of what was a USA Hamer or import Hamer anywhere in a whole weekend of internet searching. I found plenty of contradictory information. I found plenty of Hamer USA information that didn't mention any of the imports, which just added to the confusion. This was just last October. Now I'm clear on all the differences. Now that I understand the whole system it is clear as a bell: if it has USA on the headstock, it is a premium guitar; if it doesn't, it is an import. But aside from 2-3 good articles that take days of searching to stumble upon, there isn't much out there to make all that clear. This board and the Hamer Museum board (I'm guessing on the latter, I've never been there) provide great info, but I think you almost have to be a member to see most of it. You wouldn't believe how high my blog is on various Hamer searches, and I've only posted about a dozen times on how much I love Hamer guitars...and half of those were how pleased I was with the imports despite being so inexpensive, and the other half with how stunned I was that the USAs were so much better and worth every penny and more. It also doesn't help that Harmony Central's Hamer page is just as f'd up and confusing as all the rest of the Hamer info out there. Maybe all the Youtubes of Lady Scary will help. I'm going to keep posting praises of Hamer, myself. Maybe it will contribute. But in the final analysis, I have to agree with the sentiment of the difference between value and resale prices. I have purchased so many USAs because of some notion that they will only increase in resale value over the next 20-30 years, and I will have several excellent vintage instruments to pass on to grandkids...but except the 2 that I bought for resale when I was [slightly more] ignorant [than I am now], I didn't buy any to sell, I bought them because they had a price that made the value irresistible. Do I need 3 Centauras and a Diablo? That's a lot of redundancy. But I couldn't help it. And then when I saw the modified Special and the beater set-neck Chappie, how could I not find the cash for those low-priced mojo queens? I do sorta hope Hamers suddenly become big-time popular, because I want to be able to brag about how cheap I got the tobacco-burst Centaura, but if it were suddenly or someday worth $25k, that would just make me brag more, it wouldn't make me willing to part with it.

This isn't really part of the conversation, but I gotta say: This talk of "Specials" has me *extremely* missing my '80 Special w/ the Kahler trem...

...well, how much does a car cost? Tree-fitty. Oh. With or without OHSC?

...well, how much does a car cost?

White is extremely classy. (I generally don't like tort pickguards w/ any color, btw).

It looks a little bit like a Hamer Phantom, except that the upper left part (where the right arm comes over the body) is a little flatter than a Hamer. That is, if this is actually a Hamer Phantom... http://image.space.rakuten.co.jp/lg01/84/0...10c9zik0zj.jpeg

Really?!?? ...hey, wait a second. Either you really like me, or you really hate me. I'm not sure which it is yet.

You'd think the "usa" part on the headstock would be a decent clue it isn't an import...

Purchased a new/sealed copy of Tommy Shaw's "What If" CD on eBay for $40+ BIN after seeing it on Amazon for $100+. Then purchased Tommy Shaw's "Ambitious" CD for $38 new/sealed. Yep, $78 + shipping for 2 CDs I could have gotten for a few bucks on cassette or LP. Someone must have reprinted the CDs finally, because the bottom has dropped out and I think you can get either one for $10 now. Still worth every penny, because at the time, there was no way to know the CDs would become cheaply available 2 years later. I had two extra years of some dang good music. I highly recommend both CDs to anyone/everyone who likes straight ahead rock and decent guitar work. Better, in some ways, than his work with either Styx or Damn Yankees.

then jumping from XT bottom feeders to celebGear? i didn't see that one coming I never said I didn't have the money to buy better guitars. It's all about the justification. If a guitar that costs $200 makes me feel as happy as one that costs $2000, why spend 10x as much. I guess I feel far worse about spending too much money than I do about admitting I'm an idiot when it comes to tone. But Tommy Shaw is completely awesome. As I've been playing around on the fringes of Hamer world (Hey, I did by a USA Diablo, you know!), I never once considered that Tommy Shaw would have sold some of his Hamers. Or that they would otherwise be available. The difference simply is: there is no way any other guitar not owned by Tommy Shaw can be as cool or historic for 1/10th the price. So if you gotta pay to play, I want to find out what it would take, be ready, and set some specific saving goals. I can't seem to have less than 8 guitars now. I love them all. But I would gladly stick with only 1 guitar the rest of my life if it was a Tommy Shaw-owned Californian. Logical? Perish the thought. But it's still my priority system.

I'm pretty sure you're joking, but just in case: Yes. But his album "What If?" is far better: a must-have for anyone who likes rock and roll. Almost nothing in common with anything you would have heard on a Styx or Damn Yankees album, but 100%. Kick. Ass. NTTAWWT, right? I'm not saying one way or the other... Junior Mint? And you wanna be my latex salesman. I've been working on this new invention to fund future Hamer guitar purchases. I call it: The "Man-ssiere".

NTTAWWT, right?

Hmmm....

I've decided to embrace the dark side. I've decided to embrace the dark side. Yep. I would trade all the guitars listed in my sig, plus a few extra guitars not listed (like the 95 USA Studio), plus throw in some cash, to get a single Tommy Shaw-owned guitar.

Or Rick Emmitt, for that matter. Heck, I guess it would be cool to own any "celebrity" guitar, even if I don't actively lust after any but those three. If you've got something once owned by someone famous, let me know. I'll probably shrug with indifference in 90% of the cases. (I couldn't afford a SRV or EVH-owned guitar, I don't care enough about Joe Perry to pay a premium, probably wouldn't pay even $1 more for a guitar played by, say, the Edge or Dave Steward, and don't care about any guitar owned by someone I don't know the name of, even if I know that band, i.e., don't bother offering me a guitar once owned by someone in Saxon or Glass Tiger). Other than the 3 mentioned above that I might be willing to pay a premium for, consider me a potential buyer of any reasonably-priced 80s band celebrity guitar. Edited to add: I do want to clarify that it is the guitars I lust after, not the individuals.