Amp modelers and sims (NHC)

[DaveH]

Where I'm at:

First of all, I should say that I've never been impressed with the digital effects included in the Boss BR8 firmware, or the Tascam Guitar Trainer. My goal is to replace my dated original Rockman (which I like fairly well, except that it's a one-trick pony and that trick sounds like Boston). From the descriptions and reviews, I've sort of homed in on two in particular:

Korg Pandora PX4

Line 6 Pod XT

Anyone directly compared these? I'm not interested in using for live rigs or sound shaping through an amp, only for quiet home practicing and traveling (mostly through headphones). And MAYBE a little bit of recording later on. I had a *very short* opportunity to play through a PX4, but I didn't have time to adjust parameters or anything, was able only to play with the factory amp presets for a few moments.....I wasn't real impressed with any of those except for one, and even it had a shortcoming in the low end in the form of periodic flatulance. Keep in mind this was through a cheap set of headphones. Either way, I got the impression that most of the models are useless as-is.

The online audio samples of the PodXT suck imo. I think a lot of it could be due to the person playing the demos, and the cheap ass laptop speakers I'm hearing it all through. The thing is, "with the downloadable upgrades" it's getting a lot of really good reviews on HC (for what that's worth) which gives it the benefit of a doubt. So, I suppose I'd like some opinions as far as:

1) Will the PX4 get much better with a good set of headphones and some further parameter tweaking?

2) Is the PodXT good enough to be worth the extra $100?

3) Which one would keep a 'tubehead' the happiest?

Thanks for your opinions.

[ajoso]

I'm not interested in using for live rigs or sound shaping through an amp, only for quiet home practicing and traveling (mostly through headphones). And MAYBE a little bit of recording later on.

3) Which one would keep a 'tubehead' the happiest?

One criteria that should shape your thinking: if you are using this as a quiet practice/headphone amp, then do not seriously compare your modeller to a tube amp. NO tube amp can do its thing quietly – and I mean apartment-dweller, guaranteed not to wake the children & neighbors quiet. So, In comparison with Rockmans, Mini-Twins & Pignoses, a digital modeler comes out looking pretty good.

I have this argument with my purist friends who refeuse to consider a POD because it’s not good enough, but then never get to play their Super Reverbs & 100w stacks because of the volume. Heck, even my old Pro Jr. was plenty loud.

I use a POD 1.0 through Altec Computer speakers (which pumps up the bass/lower mids). At the kind of volume that I’m forced to play at, it’s very, very good (although the effects are merely okay). Good speakers are a must. Fortunately, decent computer speakers are cheap.

Having said that, it’s not quite as dynamic as a regular tube amp. I once a/b’d it to my friend’s Mesa Dual Rectifier (using the power section of the Recto and a 4x12): it sounded very similar, but after a while a bit flatter and less complex. My friend and I agreed that a good analogy would be a poster of a painting compared to the real thing. Again, that kind of comparison only comes with volume. For around the house practicing, a digital modeler is the ultimate (Although I am very interested to hear how the THD Univalve stacks up).

[KeyOfZ]

You might consider a third option:

The Zoom PFX-9003

Zoom PFX-9003 Link

It is similar to the PX4 but I think it has more useful patches.

The models are very accurate and convincing with plenty of customization options. I got mine for around 149.99 on the web (my wife got it for me last Xmas).

I have been completely happy with mine for my practicing needs.

It even has a built in condenser mic for accoustic and vocal applications (pretty good quality I might add).

Anywho....hope you find what you are looking for.

[tombo]

I had a PX-4. Very convenient, very tweakable. Great for practice, it got "almost there" sounds, and I had no complaints at all. A great product, that they keep improving all the time. Currently they are being blown out at $98 here in Japan. That means they must have a new model about to be released in the summer.

I sold the PX-4 because I have an iMac with Garage Band. Garage Band simply RULES!!! You get 4 amp models - British Dirty, British Clean, American Dirty, and American Clean. There is no need for more. The overwhelming # of effects and the quality of sound make Garage Band a no brainer.

I had a POD 2.0 at one time too. Great product, ditto everything ajoso said.

My opinion?

Sound/Cool Amp models: POD XT

Practice/Portability/Convenience: Korg PX-4

[Stike]

Another contender would be a Yamaha DG Stomp. I'm not apeshit over it's sound with headphones but to be fair my headphones are really cheap Radio Shack sumthinoruthers. It packs a fat wallop thru a power amp and they can be picked up cheap too. I've heard more than one person comment on how it "feels" more like a tube amp than other modelers.

I just got a Zoom MRS-8 multitrack and between a Flextone II, the DG, and the Zoom's models the Zoom's models might have the "best" direct sound. That being said I'm gonna start looking into building an iso. cab .

[jettster]

If you are at all concerned about it being close to a tube amp, consider the Vox Tonelab. I have that and the PODXT with all of the upgraded models, etc.

Unless you are into high gain stuff there is no comparison and I've had both for a couple years now. The Vox dosen't have the infinate tweakability of the XT but, it has plenty, with a much more straight foward, user friendly interface. You don't have to dive down through layers and layers of stuff to get to what you want. Listening through headphones the Pod has never sounded good to me, the Tonelab is decent. I will say that with all of the latest upgrades, the XT has gotten much better in the tone department. The recent price drop on the Tonelab makes it even more appealing. I think I paid $450 for mine and they are down around $299 now.

[killerteddybear]

I agree with Stike on the Yamaha DG Stomp.

90 preset settings plus another 90 you can adjust to your taste.

Four foot switches to make you wish you were still a quadruped (like your last incarnation!);

Compresser, chorus, flange, phaser, rotary effect, tremolo, delay, tape echo, spring/hall/plate reverb with control VIA KNOBS;

switchable speaker simulation (12 models);

8 'amp types';

gain/master/treble/middle/bass/presence ON KNOBS;

MIDI In/Out;

and a whack of other features (like bypassing the amp modeling, reassigning the foot switches, etc.).

I have very good headphones and the DG Stomp sounds great through them.

All this for about $150 used.

No you can't have mine!

The ONLY thing I don't like: there is no full bypass. This unit is meant to be in the signal path all the time, so it's a good idea to set up a 'basic' preset using the amp models and tone controls, make a copy and then add your effects as needed.

[ajoso]

The other thing I like about modellers is that, for a beginner, it gives you a taste of the amp universe without having to spend big bucks or spend hours upon hours in guitar stores (the latter can be acutely embarrassing if your chops aren't up to par). In other words you can get an idea of "your sound" before buying (and selling, and buyng again) expensive tube amps. After a few years of shifting through all the permutations on the POD I realized that I'm basically a straight-through-the-amp Fender guy, with a bit of Marshall thrown in for colour.

[atquinn]

If the overriding concern is a stand-alone practice tool, I would go with the PX4 or the Zoom unit, because they have:

1. Built in drum machines

2. Phrase samplers with slow-down ability

3. Aux inputs for jamming along with CD's

Anything that doesn't have at least the first two isn't really suitable for practice. Now having said that, I'm sure a DG Stomp, Pod XT, or Tonelab would be better for recording (although I personally found the DG Stomp's interface to be a complete nightmare). So, it's really all about what is more important. Also, since this is computer technology we are talking about, it might be better to get something for practicing now and buy something else for recording later (depending on when later is) when there are newer models out there and the older models are less expensive.

-Austin

[DaveH]

Thanks everyone, this gives me more to ponder on.

As for the PX4 blowing out for $98 overseas (possibly indicating a new model coming out).....I was thinking about that just yesterday! The PX4 has been out for several years now, and I was wondering if it might not be time for a new model to be announced. Maybe I'll just wait until after summer NAMM and see what all surfaces.

Any other comments are most welcome.

Thanks again!

[atquinn]

Speaking of new Pandora models, look at what showed up at Musikmesse:

http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmess.../PX4D-PX4A.html

[kurtsstuff]

I had a Line 6 HD147 head for about a week...Simulators/Modelers are cool but....Just something lacking???