Acoustic guitar experts.

[Disturber]

I picked up this 1970's made in Japan DOVE 5024. It is 100% identical to an Alvarez, but this one has no logo on the headstock. It has the same serial marking as an Alvarez as well, so it is most likely built in the same factory.

It plays really well, great neck, and sounds pretty great too.

These are supposed to have laminated mahogany in the back and sides. I am curious about the spruce top though. I might be able to see a joint going through the whole top in the middle, which would mean it is a two piece, but It is very hard for me to tell, it could just as well be one piece and a natural streak in the wood.

I can see the grains go the whole way through the top when I look in the sound hole. This makes me think it is a solid wood spruce top, not laminated, (I have an old beater that my son plays with that has a laminated spruce top and there you can clearly see that it is laminated in the sound hole).

So, do you think my guess is right, that it is a solid wood top? Any expert advice on how to tell for 100% sure?

Also, how to see if it is a one piece or a two piece top?

[JohnnyB]

The easiest way to tell if a top is laminated is to look at the wood edge at the soundhole. With a laminated top you'll see the stack of wood plies. Since you can see the grain go all the way through from top to underneath, it's a solid top. Secondly, it's normal guitar-making practice for the top to be made of two pieces of spruce planked together. It's usually bookmatched--split from a single thicker piece of spruce so the grain is symmetrical from the center line. Another thing is that just about any self-respecting Japanese acoustic (say, priced from around $200 USD back then on up) from the '70s had a solid Sitka spruce top. This is true of Yamaha, the Sigma brand (designed and imported by Martin), Aria, Alvarez, Ibanez, Takamine, etc.

Many of these were made to fairly high standards (especially regarding quality of assembly) by a few factories, with headstocks carved and badged for whatever company was going to sell them. For example, I bought a mandolin in 1976 with the brand name, "Tahara." The store where I bought it told me that Tahara was primarily an OEM that made instruments for several better known Japanese brands. This mandolin was an excellent copy of the Martin A-model. The real Martin had a solid spruce top and mahogany sides and back. The Tahara had a solid spruce top and laminated rosewood sides and back. It was a very nice sounding and playing instrument. Not as subtle as the Martin, but clear and punchy with good projection.

[Disturber]

Since you can see the grain go all the way through from top to underneath, it's a solid top. Secondly, it's normal guitar-making practice for the top to be made of two pieces of spruce planked together. It's usually bookmatched--split from a single thicker piece of spruce so the grain is symmetrical from the center line.

Thanks! This pretty much settles it then. It is a solid bookmatched spruce top.

I don't know what kind of spruce. Is there something called "white spruce"? I read somewhere that is what they used on the Alvarez Doves.

Regarding the possibility to see if the sides and back are laminated or solid mahogany (or is it rosewood?), I guess that is impossible, or what do you think?

[ZR]

Thanks! This pretty much settles it then. It is a solid bookmatched spruce top.

I don't know what kind of spruce. Is there something called "white spruce"? I read somewhere that is what they used on the Alvarez Doves.

Regarding the possibility to see if the sides and back are laminated or solid mahogany (or is it rosewood?), I guess that is impossible, or what do you think?

YOu have to compare the grain on the outside versus the inside for the back and sides to verify solid or lam. It's probably lam I would guess but it looks like a nice one either way!

[Feynman]

Unfortunately there is only one sure-fire way to find out about your top/back/sides, and it involves a drill (or similar hole making device).

For the sides and backs, you have next to no chance without the drill. You will see many Japanese factory guitars with perfectly quartersawn and bookmatched veneers, inside-and-out, with matching seams all around - it is common and done with ease all the time in large scale operations. Experts can't tell this stuff with any certainty save for digging in themselves.

There is a very high chance that the top is solid due to its trim level and time period, but even the soundhole edges can not be trusted with absolute certainty. Japanese factories have used solid wood inserts from the hole to the rosette and then matching laminates for the rest of the top. It's tricky stuff.

Since you have a back binding, you *could* carefully peel it back and look at the seam, but it's probably not worth the risk.

If you have a pulse thermograph around, that would do it too.

Little is certain except that they made quite nice guitars that are genuine bargains on the used market these days. If you could find out for sure the specs and model, of course that would answer it, but otherwise it will be your best guess....I bet that whatever it is, it's nice.

The CG I grab for 75% of my playing is a solid top with laminated back and sides, and I got it for $100. I've never heard another CG under $1000 that seemed all that much nicer.

[Jimbilly]

Solid tops are not uncommon among older Japanese guitars, but I think solid back and sides are pretty rare. A lot of those older MIJ acoustics are really great guitars. Like anything, if you practice looking for solid tops you'll get good at it and you'll be able to tell pretty quick.

[GaryT]

The guitar looks like it came out of the same factory as the Gretsch Dorados of the early 70's. Binding. TMs and everything is very similiar to my 12. At that time all the big US companys were importing a high end line from Japan.

I've research it out a bit also. You could actually see and read about the models on the Gretsch websight. the Dorado catalogs could be down loaded. Though as far as the Spruce Tops. The Catalogs state Select Spuce Top.

I could tell you this. The darn guitar sounds Very Good.

Thats a beauty though. I like the way the bridge is built on it. Interesting. Was there a Zero Fret on tha?. Is it removed on that Acoustic and the nut moved back. Or is the TR Cover just a hair shorter? You have a shot of the TM covers on back?

Cool Piece Bro..

[Disturber]

Thats a beauty though. I like the way the bridge is built on it. Interesting. Was there a Zero Fret on tha?. Is it removed on that Acoustic and the nut moved back. Or is the TR Cover just a hair shorter? You have a shot of the TM covers on back?

Cool Piece Bro..

Thanks for all the replies. I've inspected the top more closely and I am pretty sure it is solid spruce. The inside grain on the back and sides does not fully match the outside, so it is laminated.

The nut has been replaced or moved, that is why there is 1mm of space behind it. (Edit:), Also, there is a two ply truss cover, the back side is black, so it is about 1,5 mm bigger all around than the picture shows. The black dissapears into the black finish behind it.

What is "the TM covers"?

When I got the guitar last week the intonation was set all out of whack, and the dirty old strings buzzed like hell. But I liked the neck, and the price was low, so I thought what the heck I'll take a chance on this one.

It took me about two, three hours to set her up properly and now she plays like a dream.

Funny, and true, that good acoustics come alive after some playing time. After a few days of playing the sound opened up, and I played her last night for about an hour, and the guitar sounded pretty awesome. This one is a keeper.

I am thinking of putting a set of kidney Grovers on her, the original Gibson Doves came with these tuners.

[GaryT]

Oh ya, Old Wood that was good axe to start? Definatly noticable.

I like the looks of it and the fact its Old Wood. CoolPiece.