DavidE Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 So, I have my amp just killing on stage. Due to the sound guy not being able to deal with an electric guitar amp facing towards him from the back on the stage, I have to either sidewash, or like I did last night because of the size of the stage, the speaker cab was on the floor facing up at my head.Now, I have it sounding great and it's cutting like crazy on stage. Yet the sound guy can't make it cut out front. He makes suggestions for cutting mids, adding treble etc... and I do what I can to accomodate. I take a solo, step out front and it's barely audible through the mains.He's using a Sennheiser guitar mic (the flat one, silver model) on the cab. He has no problems with drums, acoustic guitar and usually does ok with bass. Sometimes my clean channel sounds ok out front. Sometimes. The vocal monitors are NEVER loud enough (except for the lead singer who gets two monitor cabs).Other than send the guy packing, any suggestions?
hardheartedbill Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 try changing the angle on the mike, I know it's flat but small changes in the angle can have huge differences. less low mid and more presence help cut ( yeah I know, you lose that warm gooey feeling ) its weird that he can do everything but you, does he have a problem w/ electric guitar? seems to me that acoustic is harder to deal w/ than electric at the soundboard.
Jeroen Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 thats sucks, I know!! There is always something going wrong with soundsystems/engineers.I don't know about the senheiser, I always ask for a Shure SM57 if we are working with other people.Jeroen
DavidE Posted August 21, 2005 Author Posted August 21, 2005 A guy who knows what he's doing set up the board for the other instruments before I was in the band. I think this sound guy just doesn't know how to do electric guitar. I added presence and it didn't do anything but make it bright on stage where it was practically cutting my head off. Ok, not that bad, but there was plenty of presence.He doesn't mess with the mic location. I saw him put it directly in the middle of the cone. I moved it over. Nothing helped. He has a good rig, but I just don't think he understands how to use it all.
hardheartedbill Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 maybe he has a padded input and doesnt realize it, is there a strong meter signal at the board? take your lil wireless bug and look. I quite standing onstage playing an A for 45 minutes while the soundman tried long ago, could be a crossover issue as well, the meat of the dirty guitar signal lives right where people can ruin it w/ a bad crossover point. does he always use the same cable? try a 57 just for fun, I don't trust that fancy shit
mrhappy Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 If you step out front and can't hear it maybe he should push the fader up. Make it loud then eq out the stuff you dont way or that's in the way of other(less worthy) stuff.
hardheartedbill Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 LOL, the ole push the fader up, why didnt he think of that
BCR Greg Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 You're wireless, go out front and eq it yourself, so he can see what you are doing.
Guest teefus2 Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 try the black sennheiser flat mic. it's much better than the silver, cheapo model. the silver one is more of a copy of an sm57 than a real sennheiser. they made the change when they realized no one (except me) would pay $200 for a guitar mic. i actually got mine at my friend's closed door sale for $140 or so a couple of years ago.in fact, the main reason i liked the black e609 was it allowed me to get the same amp sound out front that i had on stage. no eq changes or messing with it. if you have a decent amp and guitar (which i know you have both) there is no excuse for the sound "not to cut through the mix" out front.
DavidE Posted August 21, 2005 Author Posted August 21, 2005 try the black sennheiser flat mic. it's much better than the silver, cheapo model. the silver one is more of a copy of an sm57 than a real sennheiser. they made the change when they realized no one (except me) would pay $200 for a guitar mic. i actually got mine at my friend's closed door sale for $140 or so a couple of years ago.in fact, the main reason i liked the black e609 was it allowed me to get the same amp sound out front that i had on stage. no eq changes or messing with it. if you have a decent amp and guitar (which i know you have both) there is no excuse for the sound "not to cut through the mix" out front. I actually have the black version myself and he's always welcome to use it. He swears he read somewhere that the silver is the "preferred" version.Sigh...
DavidE Posted August 21, 2005 Author Posted August 21, 2005 Get a new sound guy. It's been discussed, but he's a friend of everyone in the band and frankly, most people don't have as nice a p.a. as this guy. Of course we have to use my monitor cabinet because his stopped working and he hasn't bothered to open it up and find out what's wrong....I know I don't have this problem with other sound people at clubs with house systems or when we have a sub.
Guest Mike Lee Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 "Preferred version"?So he pays more attention to what he reads in soundman rags than his own ears? He sounds like a gearhead who likes to buy the "right" gear, but has a tin ear. Send him to the Gear Page to disucss mojo...
Guest teefus2 Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 david, in all honesty, you have some nice guitars and nice amps. you play very well and know what you are doing. there is no reason you should have a problem cutting through the house mix. the problem is either the soundman is underqualified to get you through the mix or for some reason doesn't want to get you through the mix. and trust me, the silver version is NOT the preferred version of the e609. it is the version the company made to sell mics to people who think the sm57 is the end all and be all of guitar mics. they need a mic that looked different than the other but performed about the same and sold for under $100.
bobbymack Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 If your bandmates agree there's a problem with the mix, he needs to be told by everyone unanimously to fix it, as that's what he's being paid to do. Make sure he's not blowing you off as the "new guy"...It doesn't matter how nice his PA is if the mix sounds like shit...
SirDouglas Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 Oh yeah im agreeing with Tgoss...... get a new sound guy... ive fired i dont know how many sound peoples for just outright sucking.... room acoustics play a part in it but if yer any good then its nto a prblem Sir Douglas Randy
DavidE Posted August 21, 2005 Author Posted August 21, 2005 He's a good guy and I'd like to try and help him make it work if I can.
Craig S Posted August 21, 2005 Posted August 21, 2005 I agree with Greg.... You're wireless, go out front and tell him what you want. He sounds like a reasonable guy.
DavidE Posted August 22, 2005 Author Posted August 22, 2005 You're assuming I'd know what to tell him....Between his board and his outboard eqs and compressors and shit, I wouldn't be much help.He's as frustrated as I am, but he keeps blaming it on me changing my rig (different guitars and amps). But they all sound really good on stage and they all cut on stage. I just don't know what to do but I want to make it work.
Guest teefus2 Posted August 22, 2005 Posted August 22, 2005 give him half a 20 dollar bill before the show.....
BCR Greg Posted August 22, 2005 Posted August 22, 2005 You're assuming I'd know what to tell him....Between his board and his outboard eqs and compressors and shit, I wouldn't be much help.He's as frustrated as I am, but he keeps blaming it on me changing my rig (different guitars and amps). But they all sound really good on stage and they all cut on stage. I just don't know what to do but I want to make it work. I assume you know how it should sound.... Work with him to make it sound right. All you need to do is turn the knobs on YOUR channel, not rework the PA.
frankb Posted August 22, 2005 Posted August 22, 2005 You're assuming I'd know what to tell him....Between his board and his outboard eqs and compressors and shit, I wouldn't be much help.He's as frustrated as I am, but he keeps blaming it on me changing my rig (different guitars and amps). But they all sound really good on stage and they all cut on stage. I just don't know what to do but I want to make it work. 'He's as frustrated as I am, but he keeps blaming it on me changing my rig (different guitars and amps). But they all sound really good on stage and they all cut on stage. I just don't know what to do but I want to make it work.'Glad to hear that you're willing to work with him. I find it somewhat 'fishy' that he's blaming the problem on shifting rigs/gtrs- how do 'house soundmen' in clubs work with diff. bands/ rigs every night and get good sounds out front? I realize that there are some crummy house guys too but that's another thread. One suggestion that I may offer from personal experience is watching stage volume. Many of us play too loud for the room- whatever room that may be. I've run sound for diff. bands, worked at music stores, played all sorts of venues and found that to often be a problem. I've not had the pleasure of attending one of your shows so I can't say for sure that volume is part of the problem but it could be. I've carried a plexiglass shield (no not like Thor or Capt. America) and crank my amps pretty loud but don't scare off sound guys b/c it helps cut down on the bleed out front and doesn't muddy up the stage. It does sound as if he's kind of nonchalant about resolving it to everyone's satisfaction but again I can't really say that for sure....
DavidE Posted August 22, 2005 Author Posted August 22, 2005 Stage volume isn't a problem. I keep it just loud enough to hear it over the drums. He even told me I could turn it up on Thursday night. :-0 The thing is that it seems to sound good during sound check, but when the band starts playing, it gets lost.
elduave Posted August 22, 2005 Posted August 22, 2005 Are you using anything to boost leads/intros within your rig? If so, just give it some more. If not, try it. I have a Marshall Bluesbreaker on boost mode in my foostwitchable loop and there's no guesswork involved. Any lead or song intro I do is heard. Soundman doesn't even need to be there. Eliminate the variables.
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