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Converting a five string into a 10 string bass

marc61

Asked by marc61,

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marc61 Outer Circle

marc61

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I was advised by my respected friend and collegue Mr Geoff Hartwell to ask this here.

A friend is a budding luthier. She is willing to help me convert a 5 string bass into a 10 string. I have some ideas. like putting the octave tuners at the bottom so I don't have to redo the whole headstock. The stumbling block is the bridge. Any tips on manufacturing? What to use a a tailpiece? Saddles? etc. Even ideas what bass to construct this one. 

I'm aware Dean made a factory 10 a few years ago. Unfortunately I can't find one for sale. They were actually selling the leftover bridges until not too long ago. I missed out though. 

Thanks in advance for any tips

 

26 answers to this question

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murkat Veteran HFCer

murkat

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I am thinking the 5 string neck is not going to be able to handle another 5 strings.

A dual truss rod or carbon fiber reinforced neck possibly.

Design theory must be applied for success.

Steve Haynie Veteran HFCer

Steve Haynie

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We have had discussions over the use of the term "luthier."  If your friend is truly a luthier she will be able to pull up a fretboard and add some reinforcing rods if there is only a single truss rod in the neck.  It will be a lot of work, but it comes with bragging rights. 

marc61 Outer Circle

marc61

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Agreed but if I can't get a fully intonnatable bridge, I'm not going to pusue it further. I have a letter into Hipshot but have not heard back 

marc61 Outer Circle

marc61

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So no problem as warmouth makes dual truss rod neck. Still problem, getting the bridge done. I'm away for a few days but when I get back home I'll work harder on contacting hipshot. Unless someone here has a better idea

mc2 Veteran HFCer

mc2

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Marc....

I have a few 10-strings.

I also bought the last bridge Dean had. They actually didn't have the tailpiece, just one bridge. But I knew someone who had a spare tailpiece from a build he had done a couple years earlier. So....it took a couple months to track that down because it was still at the builder. But I knew the builder, so he took the time to find it and send it back to this guy. Then the guy sold it to me and shipped it FedEx. About a week later I was wonderng WTF it was and looked online....FedEx had it listed as "shipping exception," so I call them. They claimed it went to the wrong address and no one spoke English there...so, I immediately inew they went to "Bay Shore Rd" and not "Bay Shore Ave."  They had shipped it back to the sender. When it got there, he went to ship it back to me but when he checked the envelope.....it was empty.  Great.  A part no one else on the planet needs...and the last one left....and these morons lost it.

So, that was just an encouraging tale for your search to build a 10-string.

That said......

1) You will need a dual truss rod neck, if you do not want bowing problems down the line.

2) The Warmoth neck can work but you should ask for their 6-string headstock on their 5-string wide neck. That way you can easily drill the extra 4-holes between the existing 6.

3) The Warmouth neck is wider than the Dean. The Dean actually has a nice width IMO.....48 mm at the nut and 72mm at the 24th fret.  The Warmoth wide 5 is 56 mm at the nut and 79mm at the 24th fret. So, wider but not as wide as some.

4) You Can use a 5-string...or even a cheap 12ver, like a Carlo Robelli, Galveston, Marcus Martini or JET that should have enough width at the body end of the neck for the needed spacking. Those are all made by the same factory in Korea that made the Dean 10-string. They are also dual-truss necks. If you look at pictures of them, they use the same 12verbridge and tailpiece....it is likely the same bridge base and tailpiece as the Dean 10, just with 8-saddles.

The easiest and cheapest way to make a 10-string is to just find one of the cheap 12vers above, plug two tuners holes on the headstock and mod the bridge and reuse tailpiece. You can use JB Weld to plug the bridge saddle holes, spray it black and drill 10 new holes and use the largest saddles you can find from a 12-string guitar tuneomatic bridge....or have a local machinist shop make you 10 nice saddles. You probably will need longer saddle adjustment screw but they are easy to get at a hardware.

5) Alternately, use a neck from an above 12ver and use a Warmouth or similar body. You can use five of the root-octave saddles from a Schaller 8-string bridge and just have a machinist make you a new block to mount them to. I have a schematic for that if you need it.

6) you may be able to custom order a 10-string from Godlyke. The did a run of six around five years ago and still list them on their site.....but I suspect they would need to have enough orders to do another minimum run, so it could be a wait. Their necks are a little wide at the body end...48mm at nut and 80mm at 24th fret.

7) Manson in UK will build you one. It is a catalog item.

8) Conklin USA will build you one but you probably need to supply the bridge.

9) Tune in Japan used to make a 10-string but not sure if they will still do it. Those necks are wide at the body end.

10) Hamer made a 10 also but....oops. Too late, they are gone.....But you can actually convert a later version of a Hamer Chap 5 bass with the setneck because the later ones were dual truss rod. You will still need a 10string bridge and have to plug and redrill the headstock but 10 tuners fit. That neck is near identical to the Dean 10 specs.

11) Of the brands that have built a 10 but the only "cheap" one was the Dean. Also the only one made in any real numbers.

12) BTW.....although IMO the Dean neck profile was pretty decent and dual-truss, the hardware and electronics were not that great. The big problem with the Deans were most of them needed to have the necks shimmed in the neck pockets in order to get the action low enough to be playable. Once that was done, they were OK.

13) Or you could just say "screw it," buy a Bajo Quinto and sombrero and join an acoustic mariachi band. 😀

 

marc61 Outer Circle

marc61

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I think we may have had this discussion or I saw your posts on this on TB. The goal is not to try and build one for a few hundred dollars but, at the same time not spend $2K. I'm pretty sure for between $2000-$2500 I can just have a local builder make one. 

Wish I knew a way besides just buying two bridges to get those saddles from the shaller bridge. Pretty sure i can get the block mount made, especially if I bother you for the schematic :)

I'd be willing to bet there's a lot of ppl waiting for a Dean to hit the market so, the next one that goes up for sale will probably go for over the perceived market. Godlyke doesn't make the 10 string, and they don't have any bridges. 

My best bet, from what your saying is still like I thought. Get the bridge made, then choose from your options - a cheap 12er, Late chap 5 should one become available (just missed a CR 12er on eBay)

Thanks for the input. I will certainly be referencing it as things progress

 

 

mc2 Veteran HFCer

mc2

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Not a Cruise 5....a Chaparral setneck 5.

The Cruisebass 5 was a single truss rod bolt on.

You can spot a dual truss Chap 5 by the wider truss rod cover. But verify it with a seller. I am pretty sure the dual truss ones started in 1990. Ones before that are identical, except for the single truss rod.

 

Regarding the Schaller bridges.....I haven't tried it but you may be able to have two bridges "sliced" into a 3 saddle block and a 2 saddle block and simply butt/screw mount  them together, if you don't mind the appearance.

 

BTW.....do you care what finish your 10-string bridge/hardware has to be?....chrome, black, gold, etc?

 

 

 

marc61 Outer Circle

marc61

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Not particular about the bridge finish although I would say in order I prefer chrome to black to gold. I'd probably end up designing the bass around the bridge when it comes to the hardware

Not a bad idea about putting the two Shaller bridges together. I do think the look might get to me though. I had a great Hamer Cruise with the 2tek that I sold because I couldn't look at the finish crack :)

 

 

tobereeno Veteran HFCer

tobereeno

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18 hours ago, mc2 said:

Not a Cruise 5....a Chaparral setneck 5.

The Cruisebass 5 was a single truss rod bolt on.

You can spot a dual truss Chap 5 by the wider truss rod cover. But verify it with a seller. I am pretty sure the dual truss ones started in 1990. Ones before that are identical, except for the single truss rod.

 

 

 

would it be accurate to say, more or less (because there are ALWAYS custom orders floating around) - that pre-'90 Chap 5 string basses had non-reversed headstocks?

I had a dual truss-rod Chap 5 bass, and that neck was sturdy to say the least. The string spacing just didn't sit with me, but the 1st gen Cruise 5 strings do and fits me perfectly. Those necks however aren't too strong. Hell, I'm even afraid of putting heavy gauge strings on it....

mc2 Veteran HFCer

mc2

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The early Chap 5 basses started off with 4+1 headstocks. The dual-truss, setneck ones were mostly reverse headstocks and 5 on a side..".BUT not all 5-on-a-side ones are dual-truss. Ask the seller. Look for a really wide truss rod cover. The reference IMG_4758.JPGphoto below,I think, is a single truss rod one.

They also made bolt-on ones....and import ones. So it gets a little confusing.

I even ran across some later ones that are setneck but single truss rod. This one below, was advertised as a 1992 but is obviously a single truss from the cover. But it was a custom order with the Irridescent paint job and Bartolini PUPs, so maybe the original owner asked for a single truss rod to reduce weight or aomething? Or the seller had the year wrong.

 

Tobe....you still have that early graphic Cruisebass 5 that you pulled the fingerboard from and fixed the LEDs?  I always remember seeing the photos of your doing that and thinking  what a crazy fix that was to try at home. Was impressed you pulled it off.

 

 

IMG_4758.JPG

marc61 Outer Circle

marc61

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I tell ya, if I can find a Chap 5 with dual truss rods and the reverse headstock , seems like it would be a great subject for conversion. I have my eye out. 

That said, still working on the bridge first. Seems important because my philosophy (right or wrong) is that the first source of tone is your hands. Second, the bridge. 

 

 

 

marc61 Outer Circle

marc61

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Just to update, I contacted Hipshot and ABM about building custom bridges...no answer. Contacted Warmouth about building a custom neck...no answer. Patiently waiting for a dual truss Chaparral to come up for sale (good luck)

Patience will be a virtue on this project. 

 

marc61 Outer Circle

marc61

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So, some encouraging news on the bridge.ABM said they will build a 10 string version of the ABM 3568 (trying to find the specs on this) A bit pricey though,as the cost they claimed would be between 380-420 Euros. My spidey sense says that Hipshot could perhaps do something less expensive. Also, wondering out loud if they had orders for more than one, maybe the price would come down. 

marc61 Outer Circle

marc61

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Just to update if anyone's watching - Three manufacturers have gotten back to me and said they can make the 10 string bridge no problem

ABM - Not a problem but, they seem sketchy on the specs

ETS - They also said no problem. Sent me some type of price list but, I don't know how to decipher it. 

Hipshot - Said they've done it before, had a definitive price and will make the string spacing pretty much whatever I ask. It would be the A style bridge

 

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