Stringing a Stop Tail ... SP owners

[pesocaster]

I've just bought too many guitars with scratched up tail pieces because some Billy Gibbons Wannabe Dweeb thought he would capture "The Tone" by stringing over the stop tail, only to find that they scratched the shit out of it and they still can't play La Grange.

I hope I play better than that...... ha ha ha

Now Now Kids if we can't play nice there won't be any milk and cookies... er I mean Beer and Boobies......

Hey I just stumbled upon this in a way to Keep using a heavier string with a little less tension..... and when I had raised the stop bar to the point where I was happy it "seemed" like I was loosing some sustain so I gave this a whirl..... My thought is that there would actually be more string contact to the stop bar possibly gaining a bit of resonance directly to the body.... similar to a regular wrap tailpiece ..... could be something... could be nothing who knows....... it worked just fine so I thought I'd share what I found......

Having read the rest of this thread it has given me another couple ideas... i.e. the washers under the bar and tightening it down to make the contact solid is a fine idea and will give that a shot when these strings die.... or next weekend.....

if the results are the same... well splendid! it was a bit of a pain stringing it this way to begin with... adding the extra ball and such.....

However, I do like this discussion..... game on! Argue away!

[BCR Greg]

You're worrid about the posts but not the stop bar itself?

I'm not worried about any of it, Kiz, but apparently you and Luke are having conniptions over <GASP!> threading strings over the top of a stop bar.

Some people won't risk scratching the stop bar, and some won't care.

And you've taken the opposite side.

[Luke]

Reading the first paragraph here:

http://www.musiccentralwebsite.com/gtr_string_tips.htm

String tension is determined by vibrating length, mass, and pitch. Diameter alone does not determine a string’s tension. By using different raw materials or by varying the ratio between the core and the wrap wire during the winding process, two strings with the same diameter, tuned to the same pitch, could have different string tensions. For example, comparing a D’Addario .032 string to a competitor’s .032 string may not yield the same playing tension.

I have noticed some brands feel stiffer and some feel looser, even if the same gauges. I have read it before that the thicker the inner core the stiffer a string feels. Unfortunately many manufacturers do not disclose their inner core thickness for comparision purposes. I'd imagine a guitar magazine must have had a string shootout at some point, hopefully mentioning tension.

[JohnnyB]

How much is a tail piece?

A Gotoh is $9,995.00, a Schaller is $14,995.00, and a TonePros is an even $20,000.

Or you can go to eBay and get an old used one for $800 if you don't get outbid.

[JohnnyB]

I have noticed some brands feel stiffer and some feel looser, even if the same gauges.  I have read it before that the thicker the inner core the stiffer a string feels. ...

Which may partly explain how the first electric guitar players could play those 13-gauge flatwound strings. Some of them (Pyramid, for example) had a silk core; all the metal was in the winding. 13-56s with a silk core would be easier on the hands than the ones today with a solid hexagonal steel core of any gauge.

[Nuclear Wessel]

If the added string length you get from wrapping the strings around the top gets you easier bending and softer action, maybe Hamer is on to a great idea positioning the tailpiece further from the bridge on the Newport Pro.

Will we see a rash of custom order Hamers with the "Newport Pro bridge & tailpiece spacing" option with $200 upcharge?

[pesocaster]

If the added string length you get from wrapping the strings around the top gets you easier bending and softer action, maybe Hamer is on to a great idea positioning the tailpiece further from the bridge on the Newport Pro.

Will we see a rash of custom order Hamers with the "Newport Pro bridge & tailpiece spacing" option with $200 upcharge?

AH HA! Good point! ...... what if?.... or what about a trapeze style like found on some jazz arch tops and original Les Pauls.......

[HamerHokie]

If the added string length you get from wrapping the strings around the top gets you easier bending and softer action, maybe Hamer is on to a great idea positioning the tailpiece further from the bridge on the Newport Pro.

Will we see a rash of custom order Hamers with the "Newport Pro bridge & tailpiece spacing" option with $200 upcharge?

AH HA! Good point! ...... what if?.... or what about a trapeze style like found on some jazz arch tops and original Les Pauls.......

Ding ding ding - that has been my desire for a while now, but I think that it's probably a bad marketing idea in the long run. Trapeze doesn't have THE LOOK.

The feel of tension is relative, so probably the best way to solve the problem is to workout with even HEAVIER gauges on your practice instrument so that your gigging axes feel easier to play by comparison. If you gig out with 10s, practice with 11s. SRV gigged with 13s dropped a half step so you have a ways to go .

[HamerHokie]

How much is a tail piece?

In Baltimore, $100 an hour gets you a high mileage stripper...

[Luke]

If a longer overall string length created easier bending, then we would be able to see a difference between nearly identical guitars, with different bridge styles. Suppose we compare a Strat to a Strat with a Floyd Rose bridge. On a normal Strat the string's length is much longer, the entire concept of a Floyd Rose is to make the string as short as possible.

If you wish to test this theory, simply take the tops of your R2 locking nut Floyd equipped guitar and see if "adding" the headstock length to the strings aids the bending tension. It does not, but try it to see for yourself.

This reminds me of the sustain craze of the 1970s where everyone had to go to a brass nut to increase sustain. One day people woke up and asked themselves, "how often do I play a open string that I require endless sustain?". At the time people were convinced a brass nut increased the guitars sustain of every note, even the fretted ones. Just as we have accepted the earth is not flat and a brass nut will not aid the sustain of your solo played in the 12th fret box position, this too will pass.

[HamerHokie]

If a longer overall string length created easier bending, then we would be able to see a difference between nearly identical guitars, with different bridge styles.

The fact remains, string tension is less on Bigsby equipped guitars.

[Luke]

If a longer overall string length created easier bending, then we would be able to see a difference between nearly identical guitars, with different bridge styles.

The fact remains, string tension is less on Bigsby equipped guitars.

Perhaps that is due to the fact that you are bending against the tremelo spring, not a fixed object like a stop tail piece. It is easier to bend strings on tremelo guitars because the bridge allows flexibility a fixed object wouldn't. The problem with double stop bends on a tremelo equipped guitar is, as you bend say the G string, the bridge detunes the other strings, so the note you are playing on the B string goes flat as a result. Even if you load your tremelo with all five springs, they will give in sooner than a fixed tail piece such as a sustain block bridge.

[madhatter]

Another option for those that wish to try this is to replace the stop tailpiece with a wrap around tailpiece. It cost a little more, but then you won't damage your existing tailpiece. I tried this on my Special a few years ago and have kept it on.

As for La Grange, I think the first solo is a Strat but the second is a Les Paul.

[kizanski]

[pesocaster]

[El Kabong]

Meh, this would have been moot if you went with a Kahler ;-

[pesocaster]

Meh, this would have been moot if you went with a Kahler ;-

hahahha

Well the strings are dead... going to try the washer trick this weekend..... after giving this a lot more though... I think this will work out better.... one of the "advantages" of wrapping a standard stop bar (non Tone Pros) would be the slight twisting of the bar making a very solid contact against the posts..... however the tone pros takes that out of the equation....... I'll post after the weekend...

[Jimbilly]

Ya know, Jol designed the Chap 5's w/ a reverse headstock, not to change the tension of the string, but to increase the elasticity and vibrating mass, that's a fact. Kind of similar to what you're experiencing?