P90 buzzzzzzzzz

[jaberwock]

Having loaded some Fralin P90's into my Monaco III I'm loving the tone, but have developed a pathological fear of fluorescent, light fittings, especially the multi coloured, flashing, beer commercial type. I find myself locked into the one position on stage that yields the minimum 60 hz buzzzz.

I'm assuming given the superlative, construction, quality of his guitars Joel has done a thorough, shielding job on the electronics; does anyone have any tips for reducing the hum ?

If all else fails I was considering replacing the middle pick up with a hum cancelling p90, either a Fralin or a Kinman ( I heard the Kinmans were fairly low output ) which would in theory give me positions 2, 3, and 4,

pretty much noise free. Could a hum cancelling pickup be RWRP ?

Regards Jaberwock

[atquinn]

... Could a hum cancelling pickup be RWRP ?...

No. A humcancelling pickup uses 2 coils, so while either one of them could be RWRP in relation to the other pickups the pickup as a whole will not be RWRP in relationship to the other pickups.

-

Austin

[jaberwock]

... Could a hum cancelling pickup be RWRP ?...

No. A humcancelling pickup uses 2 coils, so while either one of them could be RWRP in relation to the other pickups the pickup as a whole will not be RWRP in relationship to the other pickups.

-

Austin

So a noiseless P 90 is actually a humbucker.

[atquinn]

... Could a hum cancelling pickup be RWRP ?...

No. A humcancelling pickup uses 2 coils, so while either one of them could be RWRP in relation to the other pickups the pickup as a whole will not be RWRP in relationship to the other pickups.

-

Austin

So a noiseless P 90 is actually a humbucker.

As far as I know, yes. Either stacked (Duncan and others), side-by-side (Dimarzio) or sidewinder-style (Fralin and others).

-

Austin

[bubs_42]

... Could a hum cancelling pickup be RWRP ?...

No. A humcancelling pickup uses 2 coils, so while either one of them could be RWRP in relation to the other pickups the pickup as a whole will not be RWRP in relationship to the other pickups.

-

Austin

So a noiseless P 90 is actually a humbucker.

As far as I know, yes. Either stacked (Duncan and others), side-by-side (Dimarzio) or sidewinder-style (Fralin and others).

-

Austin

Yep, I don't fully understand how they do it but they have 2 coils.

[Mike Lee]

Yes, you can get a RWRP P90 middle pickup that WILL hum cancel with the neck or with the bridge, just like on any modern Strat. You'll still get buzz on any single pickup, but the two combo positions will be noise free.

The fact that Hamer doesn't do this at the factory with the 3 P90 guitars is troubling, given the price level.

You can make your middle RWRP yourself. Just reverse the two wires coming from the coil to the braided lead. Usually there's a white and a black wire, but maybe two blacks. I've seen Duncans both ways.

Then also reverse the two magnets in the pickup. All you have to do is loosen the bottom plate screws, slide out the two magnets, and flip them both so the side that used to face out faces in.

I've done this many times, and even created hybrid P90's out of different pickups (magnets from one, coil from another, etc.).

[atquinn]

Yes, you can get a RWRP P90 middle pickup that WILL hum cancel with the neck or with the bridge, just like on any modern Strat. You'll still get buzz on any single pickup, but the two combo positions will be noise free.

The fact that Hamer doesn't do this at the factory with the 3 P90 guitars is troubling, given the price level.

You can make your middle RWRP yourself. Just reverse the two wires coming from the coil to the braided lead. Usually there's a white and a black wire, but maybe two blacks. I've seen Duncans both ways.

Then also reverse the two magnets in the pickup. All you have to do is loosen the bottom plate screws, slide out the two magnets, and flip them both so the side that used to face out faces in.

I've done this many times, and even created hybrid P90's out of different pickups (magnets from one, coil from another, etc.).

This is true, but from what I can tell, the OP was asking if a noiseless P90 can be RWRP and they can't. No humbucker can as it is a term that only applies to single coils. As far as Hamer not using a RWRP middle pickup it is strange since they use on on the 2 P90 guitars. At least they did on my Special.

-Austin

[serial]

Get an ISP Decimator. Seriously.

[DavidE]

I put two Fralin noiseless P90s in my triple P90 PRS Custom 22. The middle position of the 5 way blade switch is neck and bridge, so it's silent in all positions. I like the way the Fralins sound.

[tomteriffic]

Get an ISP Decimator. Seriously.

^^^^^^^^

This

[jaberwock]

I put two Fralin noiseless P90s in my triple P90 PRS Custom 22. The middle position of the 5 way blade switch is neck and bridge, so it's silent in all positions. I like the way the Fralins sound.

Are the noiseless Fralins close to the tone of the standard P90 ? I've heard the intial attack is more humbuckerish, although the overall tone isn't far off.

I used to play in a spoof, heavy metal, band called " AXE'S OF EVIL" it did wonders for my arpegios,

I still use a lot of that sh*t now.

[jaberwock]

Yes, you can get a RWRP P90 middle pickup that WILL hum cancel with the neck or with the bridge, just like on any modern Strat. You'll still get buzz on any single pickup, but the two combo positions will be noise free.

The fact that Hamer doesn't do this at the factory with the 3 P90 guitars is troubling, given the price level.

You can make your middle RWRP yourself. Just reverse the two wires coming from the coil to the braided lead. Usually there's a white and a black wire, but maybe two blacks. I've seen Duncans both ways.

Then also reverse the two magnets in the pickup. All you have to do is loosen the bottom plate screws, slide out the two magnets, and flip them both so the side that used to face out faces in.

I've done this many times, and even created hybrid P90's out of different pickups (magnets from one, coil from another, etc.).

Would it then be possible to improve the original SD Hot soapbars by replacing the ceramic magnet with an alnico one ( because the Duncans are just too LOUD) and if so do you know where I could buy some suitable magnets ?

Get an ISP Decimator. Seriously.

^^^^^^^^

This

Got one on order, thanks; considerably cheaper than a noiseless Kinman p90 which go for $150 plus a pop.

[Mike Lee]

Would it then be possible to improve the original SD Hot soapbars by replacing the ceramic magnet with an alnico one ( because the Duncans are just too LOUD) and if so do you know where I could buy some suitable magnets ?

Yes. The stock pickups are SD Custom in the bridge, which has 14K wind and big ceramic magnets, and SD Hot in the neck/middle with about a 12K wind and smaller ceramic magnets. I've taken the Hot neck coil with Alnico 5 magnets, and made a decent bridge pickup that matches reasonably well with a SD Vintage P90 neck. I think you might be able to get magnets from Stewart-McDonald or one of the other guitar supply houses.

The problem is Alnico magnets are weaker than ceramic, so with those overwound coils you will get even more mids and less bass/highs. Not the right direction to do.

[jaberwock]

Would it then be possible to improve the original SD Hot soapbars by replacing the ceramic magnet with an alnico one ( because the Duncans are just too LOUD) and if so do you know where I could buy some suitable magnets ?

Yes. The stock pickups are SD Custom in the bridge, which has 14K wind and big ceramic magnets, and SD Hot in the neck/middle with about a 12K wind and smaller ceramic magnets. I've taken the Hot neck coil with Alnico 5 magnets, and made a decent bridge pickup that matches reasonably well with a SD Vintage P90 neck. I think you might be able to get magnets from Stewart-McDonald or one of the other guitar supply houses.

The problem is Alnico magnets are weaker than ceramic, so with those overwound coils you will get even more mids and less bass/highs. Not the right direction to do.

Did Jol ever explain his thinking behind putting such high output pickups on a carved, spruce top, guitar ?

[Mike Lee]

Did Jol ever explain his thinking behind putting such high output pickups on a carved, spruce top, guitar ?

Not really. But he's not there anymore, so we'll see if anything changes. That's what was in the original P90 Special and it's never changed. Some people want nothing but Leslie West / George Thorogood sound from P90's, which can be cool, but is somewhat limiting.

On their P90 models, PRS uses a Duncan Vintage Neck P90 in the neck position and a Custom Neck P90 in the bridge position. Vintage tone at the neck, and a bit hotter at the bridge, but not as hot as the Custom Bridge P90 that Hamer uses.

[jaberwock]

Did Jol ever explain his thinking behind putting such high output pickups on a carved, spruce top, guitar ?

Not really. But he's not there anymore, so we'll see if anything changes. That's what was in the original P90 Special and it's never changed. Some people want nothing but Leslie West / George Thorogood sound from P90's, which can be cool, but is somewhat limiting.

On their P90 models, PRS uses a Duncan Vintage Neck P90 in the neck position and a Custom Neck P90 in the bridge position. Vintage tone at the neck, and a bit hotter at the bridge, but not as hot as the Custom Bridge P90 that Hamer uses.

"Our guitars sounded great acoustically. Why bury the

sound with high output pickups? That’s still my philosophy." Jol Danzig

[Mike Lee]

"Our guitars sounded great acoustically. Why bury the

sound with high output pickups? That’s still my philosophy." Jol Danzig

Yeah, well that's another one of those Jol Dantzig paradoxes, isn't it? Hamer did switch to '59's in the Studio, Vector, and Standard some time ago instead of the old JB/'59 combo. And they always used Seth Lovers in the Artist and Newport Pro models, and vintage-y Phat Cats in the Newports.

But the Monaco's and P90 guitars always got high output pickups. Never figured that out, but then Jol was not easy to figure out in other respects.

[gorch]

Pickups in the 12-14k range compare to the old Dimarzio Super Distortions. That would mean that the aforementioned Monacos and P90s are complementary to rest of the catalog.

[jaberwock]

Would a high output P90 have a lower signal to noise ratio than a vintage output one ?

I have the old 14K SD P90 in the middle position on my M III, it means I can lower it well away from the strings allowing me more room for my pick, and fingernails, and it still balances with the output of the Fralins.

Jaberwock

[gorch]

A larger string to pole distance should tone wise result in lower string separation. This could affect tone clarity depending on the setup.