repainting a guitar= diminishing the tone?

[diablo175]

Contemplating repainting a farily dinged up Diablo but want to go from the stock translucent lacquer stain to an opaque airbrushed design (i.e. white primer & multiple applications of enamel/acrylic, nitrocellulous???) The paint, along with some deftly applied filler will hopefully eliminate most of the dings.

Have heard that the more opaque paint treatment robs the guitar of some of it's tone. While a Diablo is not exactly a tonewood dependant guitar, still don't want to markedly diminish any of it's tonal attributes. Any truth to the statement re: paint and tone?

[Stike]

ok, so if finish doesn't matter, then why are nitrocellulose lacquers valued over cheapo import urethane (or whatever it is) finishes? Import finishes come out very shiny, are easy to apply obviously, are cheap, and polish very well; they're just thick as hell.

Not everybody values nitrocellulose, Hamer hasn't used it in close to 20 years.

[kizanski]

Jeff Healey used a Squire Strat.

I've read that he used tungsten pickup screws backed off one turn - can you confirm?

I cannot, but if there was ever anyone that you would pick to do a "blind" test, it would be him.

[gorch]

maybe it's my imagination, but my Centaura that's been refinished with just a couple coats of natural nitro seems to just resonate better. But there are many, many factors involved, and the age of the wood seems to play a major, if not primary, role.

There was once a time when it was thought that wood had zero effect on electric guitar tone. And I'm sure there are some old enough here to remember the brass hardware fad...

Young wood breathes more than old wood. Old wood eventually runs out of breath.

RIP.

[Morris Davis]

Jeff Healey used a Squire Strat.

I've read that he used tungsten pickup screws backed off one turn - can you confirm?

Confirmed.

[tobereeno]

whether or not it actually "affects" tone, I like very resonant guitars. I think a thinner finish *might* have less of a dampening effect on a guitar.

a finish affects the acoustical qualities of wood; there is no argument there. Whether it matters on an electric...?

[jaberwock]

I carefully scraped off the finish under the bridge plate on my parts caster Tele, so that the metal sits directly on the wood, you wouldn't have to be a "cork sniffer" to hear the difference, definitely warmer, and fuller.

Jaberwock

[Ting Ho Dung]

I carefully scraped off the finish under the bridge plate on my parts caster Tele, so that the metal sits directly on the wood, you wouldn't have to be a "cork sniffer" to hear the difference, definitely warmer, and fuller.

Jaberwock

That sounds like a really cool idea. I do have a couple of experiences to share. One is with a Blitz I've owned since the 90's. I bought it from a pawn shop for $225 simply because it was a Hamer, my second. I didn't like the finish on it and I bought it intending to refinish it. It was an ugly black and scum green, almost like the phosphorescence color they used to put on the hands of watches to make them glow in the dark. Maybe it did glow, I didn't play it with the lights off. I think it was called a crackle finish. It would have been cool if the green was a different color. I got some paint stripper and scrapped off the finish, got a flat black can of krylon from Ace and sprayed it up. I put it all back together and gave it to my son for his birthday. We plugged it into my old Laney VC-30 with the gain up as high as it would go and ripped out some old JP, well I did, my son watched. That thing sounded so good I almost regretted giving it to him. I'm not sure if what I did changed the tone but it looked so cool, all flat black like a stealth bomber, that it put a smile on our faces. If it did change the tone it didn't hurt it any.

Second experience: I purchased a Zion Radicaster off e-bay about 17 months after my first born son died. I was locked in a bleak and dismal depression that seemed to have no bottom. I thought the guitar would cheer me up. One of the main reasons I got this guitar was for the EMG David Gilmour pickup set. But when I got it it sounded horrible. There was no tone, no overtones, no tone separation, the guitar was basically dead. Needless to say I was very disappointed. I took it apart and the body turned out to be cheep plywood and the bridge sustain block was a lead / zink looking thing that I could cut with a knife. So I bought a signature Jimmy Vauhgn body and the same Wilkinson VSV that is in my Daytona. Put it all together and plugged it in my cute little Vox AC-4 TV. I strummed a chord and the low strings sounded like a piano. I couldn't believe it. I put my ear on the horn and they rang forever, litterally. My son, Brandon came all the way across the house to see what that sound was. He was smiling, I was smiling. That was the first time I felt joy in my heart in a very long time. It was absolutely amazing. The funny thing is, I had just the week before told a friend of mine I bet EMG's would sound the same mounted to a sheet of plywood as they would in a $4,000 LP. That may be true for playing Metallica through the 85 / 81 with the gain on full, but it wasn't the case for my frankenstrat playing, "Shine On You Crazy Diamond." My Daytona sounds totally different from my Zionstrat. The Daytona does have EVG SV's. I've thought about switching them back and forth between the two, but then again, I may leave well enough alone. So the wood and bridge made a huge difference. Jurry's still out on the finish.

--Michael

[gorch]

whether or not it actually "affects" tone, I like very resonant guitars. I think a thinner finish *might* have less of a dampening effect on a guitar.

a finish affects the acoustical qualities of wood; there is no argument there. Whether it matters on an electric...?

Create a guitar of pure "lacquer" and you will be amazed what it sounds even without the wood.

[jaberwock]

a finish affects the acoustical qualities of wood; there is no argument there. Whether it matters on an electric...?

I think a large reason guitarists like playing loud is because of the physical interaction between guitar and speakers, even without overdrive the guitar sustains better and has a singing tone; a thick poly finish would surely inhibit this; I'm not sure wether it matters if it's poly or nitro, it's just it's damping effect on on the woods resonance, which in the case of an electric would become more noticeable at higher volume.

I'm not sure what the finish is on my Monaco III, but the whole guitar vibrates,and resonates in my hands at stage levels, and that guitar sings like Pavarotti on his wedding night .

Thorn, on a personal note, so sorry to hear of your loss, that's every parents worst nightmare.

Jaberwock

[gorch]

Hamer USA guitars are made from mahogany which is a very strong wood. Fender mainly uses alder or ash. Alder is much softer, ash somewhere in between. BCR_Greg once presented a guitar made from aluminum that he highly recommended.

A softer wood certainly easier resonates to stage level volumes. On the other hand, a stronger body material has much better sustain on itself for its strength with less dampening.

So, adding a load of lacquer onto a soft wood body would give the whole construction more strength and, therefore, sustain more on its own. Not better or worse, simply different. Repainting your guitar to normal grades, I would not suggest any sound impact at all, especially, if its mahogany you are painting on.

[dogsrock]

So what is the tone difference between a thin nitro finish and a 20 lb. acrylic guitar