Brazilian board on a 78 Sunburst ??

[HamerHamburg]

Hi from Hamburg in Germany,

I currently have a 78 Sunburst dot neck up for sale in Germany and I have been asked for a certificate for braziian rosewood. If it indeed is brazilian, I could have it certified easily, since the guitar was built before 92 and the owner has the benefit of doubt from the authorities that it also has been in the EU before 92.

Here's the question: Is there any knowledge that Hamer used brazilian rosewood on the guitars built in 1978 ? I'm fine if it's not brazilian, but if it is, I would have to go through the process of a CITES registration to make any sale of the guitar absolutely legal.

Thanks for any input.

 

Cheers, Todde

[murkat]

I would not rule it out.

Back then in the 50's, 60's, 70's Rosewood was Rosewood , same as Honduras Mahogany... it was referred just as Mahogany.

The boutique era finally started to get into the specs of origin to exploit sales in the name of grail tone woods.

Braz boards were widely use back then without fanfare.

Some have them, some do not.

You may have to get a pro opinion in your area to find out what it actually is.

[HamerHamburg]

Thanks Jay,

I'll have my local pro have a look at it and see what he says.

Cheers, Todde

[Armitage]

This is the NEW thing everywhere starting Jan 1... to export or import an item that MAY have Brazilian rosewood you need a document to prove it IS (and it's date of manufacture) or it iSNT. You'll have to prove it to a Customs Agent who doesn't know anything about wood. I was with a vintage dealer on Saturday and that's all he talked about. Anything with a dark wood on the neck could be considered Brazilian to a Customs guy.

[HamerHamburg]

Yep, they are going crazy on this and I think this is just the start. I recently ordered two necks from Warmoth, both  maple with a Pao Ferro board (looks a lot like any rosewood) and had no problems at all with customs. UPS did the customs clearance for me and I had to pay them the duties and a small fee for the service. Only 3 days in transit from the USA.

Totally easy.

I'm flying to Florida in 10 days and will be there for two weeks (Fort Myers area). I'm planning on buying another Warmoth neck to take back with me to avoid shipping and customs - but it will be a one piece maple this time !! Ain't takin'no chances ....

Cheers, Todde

[HamerHamburg]

Oh, by the way ... talked to my local luthier and he said he already had a closer look at it when he did the refret, when I first got it. He says he's 99% sure it's not Brazilian, so I'm going for 100% legal to sell ...

Cheers, Todde

[Armitage]

I don't think it kicks in until Jan 1st... so I've been told. 

[crunchee]

So, I guess saying that it's actually brown wood-grained Richlite isn't gonna help?  

[chromium]

This thread had me very curious and digging... Sounds like the Jan 2017 thing relates to CITES adding new species of wood to their protected list - including Indian Rosewood.  Basically, if its rosewood - watch out:

http://www.australianmusic.asn.au/industry-advisory-on-new-rosewood-trade-regulations/

This was an enlightening read too:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/entry.php?771-Musical-Instruments-and-CITES

Gory detail on all protected species is here:

https://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.php

[HamerHamburg]

15 hours ago, crunchee said:

So, I guess saying that it's actually brown wood-grained Richlite isn't gonna help?  

Just be really adamant about it being tie dyed fibreboard and all will be easy ....

[HamerHamburg]

Q. I purchased a new Brazilian rosewood guitar in 2003. I now wish to travel abroad with it on my next tour. What paperwork do I need?

A. You need full export, import and re-export permits for each country. Your main problem is going to be proving that the materials used on your particular guitar were harvested and legally exported/imported prior to June 1992. If you cannot produce such evidence, your application for CITES permits will be refused. You should contact the manufacturer to see if they can be of any assistance in providing the necessary evidence.
 

Above is what happened to many many Fender users who had Custom Shop intruments. Even long after 1992 they were advertized and marketed as Brazilian Rosewood fretboard guitars and Fender could not prove nodda ... and everybody with such a guitar was stuck with an illegal instrument in Germany. No chance to make it legal. I think Fender actually after a lot of pressure started to exchange these guitars or offer new necks, but that is just what I heard.

Cheers, Todde

 

[Armitage]

11 hours ago, chromium said:

This thread had me very curious and digging... Sounds like the Jan 2017 thing relates to CITES adding new species of wood to their protected list - including Indian Rosewood.  Basically, if its rosewood - watch out:

http://www.australianmusic.asn.au/industry-advisory-on-new-rosewood-trade-regulations/

This was an enlightening read too:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/entry.php?771-Musical-Instruments-and-CITES

Gory detail on all protected species is here:

https://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.php

The trick I'm told is you may have to prove anything with rosewood is not Brazilian... to some Customs guy who just sees brown Wood... Most cabnet makers can't reliably tell. eBay and Reverb sellers, and buyers beware.

[cynic]

8 hours ago, Armitage said:

Most cabnet makers can't reliably tell.

Yet most gear pagers can tell from poor quality phone snaps.

[Armitage]

Yeah...