79 Sunburst - Fret buzz need help

[jamminpete]

Hello,

I have a 79 Sunburst and I'm getting fret buzz on all strings after about the 10th fret.  The Neck is straight and there are no issues.  I know the pre 79 models had a piece or rosewood or ebony under the bridge.  Is this the only way to fix this issue?  Any other ideas?

 

Thanks,

Pete

[Dave Scepter]

Truss rod adjustment 

[Cboss]

In the colder weather I find I'm adjusting truss rods frequently; an easy way to do it is on the high e string fret the first and the last (using pinkie) then reach your thumb or index finger up to the 12th, tap the string down and check the relief to fret contact.  I personally like about half a millimeter.

If there is no relief loosen your truss rod one quarter turn, then back it just a little bit, if there is too much relief tighten your truss rod a quarter turn, then back it down just a little bit, let it sit a bit and then check it.

Truss rod is ready tighty lefty loosey as you're looking down the neck of the guitar toward the body

[jamminpete]

Tried the truss rod already the neck is pretty flat.  But the strings still buzz past the 10th fret.  I think the bridge needs to be lifted but I don't think there is any way to do it unless I shim it from underneath.

[Jeff R]

The absolute GOAT and MVP of bench tools for set-ups is a notched straight edge. You ideally want to measure and set relief off the fingerboard, not the frets. Why? Because frets wear away over time, particularly in the case of guitars that are decades old like many of our Hamers. If you are measuring and setting relief off fretted strings using worn frets as your gauge, what you think is ideal relief could actually be dead flat due to worn, eroded frets.

Notched straight edges typically have a 24.75 side and a 25.5 side. The 24.75 side works on PRS and anything else with 25.0. The one I use cost almost a hundred bucks from StewMac. But you can get a high quality clone on eBay made of steel for a fourth of that.

There are notched straight edges for basses too, with 34 on one side and 35 on the other.

 

[Jeff R]

29 minutes ago, jamminpete said:

Tried the truss rod already the neck is pretty flat.  

You don't want a flat neck, you want subtle relief, like the curve of a smile or a rocking chair's rockers but obviously not that exaggerated.

A flat neck only makes sense if a string is not in motion. A struck/plucked string vibrates in an oval shape, with the peak of the wave at the center of the string length. You set relief to give that oval-shaped vibrating string the space it needs to vibrate as close to the frets as possible up and down the neck without audibly banging into the frets, better known as buzzing. The moving string's oval is subtle, so relief is subtle. I typically put about a business card's thickness of relief at the lowest point of the dip/curve, somewhere between F5 and F10 depending on the guitar in question, with the guitar lying flat on its back on the bench. That is why I rely so heavily on my notched straight edge ha.

It goes without saying a finesse player needs less relief than a player who hits his instrument like a drum kit. Harder hit = more string motion = need for greater relief. String gauge, weird flat tunings with less pounds of string tension, all that stuff comes into play. And if you like changing tunings frequently on a particular guitar, you have to reset the relief each time or find a general setting for relief and action that allows all of one's tuning preferences.

If you are setting relief as I have described above and you are fretting out,

your action is too low

and/or you are in need of fret leveling

and/or possibly a partial or full refret that potentially includes a re-truing of the fingerboard.

 

[jamminpete]

13 minutes ago, Jeff R said:

The absolute GOAT and MVP of bench tools for set-ups is a notched straight edge. You ideally want to measure and set relief off the fingerboard, not the frets. Why? Because frets wear away over time, particularly in the case of guitars that are decades old like many of our Hamers. If you are measuring and setting relief off fretted strings using worn frets as your gauge, what you think is ideal relief could actually be dead flat due to worn, eroded frets.

Notched straight edges typically have a 24.75 side and a 25.5 side. The 24.75 side works on PRS and anything else with 25.0. The one I use cost almost a hundred bucks from StewMac. But you can get a high quality clone on eBay made of steel for a fourth of that.

There are notched straight edges for basses too, with 34 on one side and 35 on the other.

 

Yup that's exactly the tool I used.  I bought it from stewmac years ago.  The fretboard is perfectly straight -before I made it straight it was curved and they still buzzed.

I think the bridge needs to be lifted.  I was just wondering if there is any other way to raise the bridge without using a shim.

[Jeff R]

6 minutes ago, jamminpete said:

I think the bridge needs to be lifted.  I was just wondering if there is any other way to raise the bridge without using a shim.

From a practical standpoint, no. Your only other option would be to reset the neck angle.

 

[Dave Scepter]

1 hour ago, jamminpete said:

I think the bridge needs to be lifted.  I was just wondering if there is any other way to raise the bridge without using a shim.

Have you tried raising each individual saddle with a allen wrench?.. "and just to echo" you don't want a straight neck, you want a slight bow as you site down the neck 

[Cboss]

1 hour ago, Dave Scepter said:

Have you tried raising each individual saddle with a allen wrench?.. "and just to echo" you don't want a straight neck, you want a slight bow as you site down the neck 

As he said - each saddle is height adjusted by 2 allen screws toward the front of the saddle.

[jamminpete]

20 hours ago, Dave Scepter said:

Have you tried raising each individual saddle with a allen wrench?.. "and just to echo" you don't want a straight neck, you want a slight bow as you site down the neck 

Thanks.  I didn't know that's what those 2 allen screws were for.  They are so small I have to purchase an allen wrench.  Anyone know what size those are?

[Dave Scepter]

3 hours ago, jamminpete said:

Thanks.  I didn't know that's what those 2 allen screws were for.  They are so small I have to purchase an allen wrench.  Anyone know what size those are?

I just brought my guitar to my local Ace Hardware and bought a few of the little Allen wrenches... also it can also be a high fret "above the 10th fret causing the buzz.... start from the 22nd fret and work down each fret to see where the buzz stops or starts

[HSB0531]

On 1/13/2024 at 1:05 PM, Jeff R said:

The absolute GOAT and MVP of bench tools for set-ups is a notched straight edge. You ideally want to measure and set relief off the fingerboard, not the frets. Why? Because frets wear away over time, particularly in the case of guitars that are decades old like many of our Hamers. If you are measuring and setting relief off fretted strings using worn frets as your gauge, what you think is ideal relief could actually be dead flat due to worn, eroded frets.

Notched straight edges typically have a 24.75 side and a 25.5 side. The 24.75 side works on PRS and anything else with 25.0. The one I use cost almost a hundred bucks from StewMac. But you can get a high quality clone on eBay made of steel for a fourth of that.

There are notched straight edges for basses too, with 34 on one side and 35 on the other.

 

Great info, Thanks!

[cmatthes]

On 1/13/2024 at 2:19 AM, jamminpete said:

Hello,

I have a 79 Sunburst and I'm getting fret buzz on all strings after about the 10th fret.  The Neck is straight and there are no issues.  I know the pre 79 models had a piece or rosewood or ebony under the bridge.  Is this the only way to fix this issue?  Any other ideas?

 

Thanks,

Pete

That shim wasn’t used on Sustainblock bridges.  That was used on the precursor to the SB bridge, which was essentially a MightyMite hardtail Strat bridge.  That’s one of the reasons Sustainblock bridges are considerably thicker.

[Jimbilly]

Hopfully none of your tiny allen screws are stuck, that can happen over time.  I'd be careful to not twist too hard, and if any of them seem stuck, I'd take the saddle off and soak in an appropriate oil for a while. I bought a can of AeroKroil years ago for stuck parts, it was kind of expensive, but I think it will last me the rest of my life.  

[Jimbilly]

On 1/14/2024 at 8:48 AM, jamminpete said:

Thanks.  I didn't know that's what those 2 allen screws were for.  They are so small I have to purchase an allen wrench.  Anyone know what size those are?

.050" seems to fit on mine.

If it hasn't been adjusted in forever, expect some crud to be filling the holes in some of the screws on the palm-muting side of the bridge. You may have to clean those out with a small/pointy metal tool before you can get the hex wrench in there. 

[Jeff R]

On 1/16/2024 at 9:25 AM, Jimbilly said:

Hopfully none of your tiny allen screws are stuck, that can happen over time.  I'd be careful to not twist too hard, and if any of them seem stuck, I'd take the saddle off and soak in an appropriate oil for a while. I bought a can of AeroKroil years ago for stuck parts, it was kind of expensive, but I think it will last me the rest of my life.  

Before you remove and soak frozen saddle height screws, clean the loose sludge and rust out of the hex head with an ice pick tip so you can get the allen wrench completely deep inside the hex head. Then apply a pointy-tipped soldering iron to the screw head for 10-20 seconds before you try to remove it. It usually frees up.

The soldering iron heat trick also helps when removing rusty pickguard, jackplate, strap pin, control cover, pickup mounting ring and tuner screws that have stripped or wallowed out heads.

 

 

[Jimbilly]

2 hours ago, Jeff R said:

Before you remove and soak frozen saddle height screws, clean the loose sludge and rust out of the hex head with an ice pick tip so you can get the allen wrench completely deep inside the hex head. Then apply a pointy-tipped soldering iron to the screw head for 10-20 seconds before you try to remove it. It usually frees up.

The soldering iron heat trick also helps when removing rusty pickguard, jackplate, strap pin, control cover, pickup mounting ring and tuner screws that have stripped or wallowed out heads.

 

 

   I have put saddles with badly stuck bolts in a needle-nose vice grip, and heated with a cigarette lighter (and once a propane torch), but those are hard on the finish and should be a last resort.  - Heat can be really helpful, and I like your soldering iron idea before trying other more drastic methods.

***Update***.  Jeff R: good tip on using the soldering iron!  I went through my guitars about a week ago, including checking all the saddle screws, one on my '84 Special was stuck, it's been sitting for a week with a little dab of penetrating oil on there. I just checked it again, still stuck. I just held the soldering iron on there for 20+ seconds, and I got it to move just one 'click' back and forth, so not quite stuck solid. A little more lube with some back&forth, and the click turned into movement, and eventually into fully freed up. Thanks for the great 'new' tip!

[jamminpete]

On 1/15/2024 at 2:11 PM, Joe mama said:

Do you have any pictures of the guitar you can share

I posted a thread about this guitar 10 years ago when got it.  Check the link for pictures.  I think its a 79 or 78 the headstock has been refinished and it looks like they painted on the entire logo.  I'm not sure why this was done as there are no neck breaks.  
Hamer Sunburst Link

Anyways, thanks everyone here I was able to adjust the saddles with a super small T5 torx bit that I had.  They adjusted easily and the guitar sounds great now.