can you spot a fraud?

[Yeahmann]

i need help from this expert group

1. did hamer ever put a schaller tremolo on a californian in 1988 i.e. would you think it's not an original part if it was stamped schaller in that year? cuz all the rest of my hamer guitars have floyds stamped Hamer.

2. would it devalue the californian if it had non-original parts on it? and by how much?

3. are you aware of small print Hamer(usa) stamps that are small scale on the headstock. . . like 1/2 inch verses 1 inch for all the other (7) hamer guitars i own

so the reason i'm asking is i'm wondering if i've been duped on a guitar i bought. . sold as all original but with a gold schaller tremolo and with 1/2 inch Hamer letters on the headstock. . has boomers but may have been a refin or something. . . what do you all think

[GusS]

whats the serial number? sounds like a mid 90s model

[Yeahmann]

8208XX

1988.. . its probably legit. . its just in such damn good shape it really looks like its brand new. ..almost too good to be true. . a "mint" guitar

[GusS]

I am not authority, but i believe all '88s had stadium logos. Are there dots between the letters of USA?

[stonge]

I think the Hamer-logo Floyds were actually made by Schaller (outside of a few OFR bridges), and I think Schaller OEM'd for a few different brands and swapped out the logos as needed. I think Schaller also went to replaceable nuts (where the intonation screw bolts to the baseplate) on their own bridges prior to changing the OEM bridges. As far as the headstock logo, not everything had the stadium logo and that one looks normal to me - any sign of repairs etc as in a refinish? It just might be that you got lucky and scored a 'Closet Classic' Hamer (we can use that phrase since Hamer is a subsidiary now - can't wait for the Relics and all degrees in between).

looks like a score - what's the rest of that one look like?

Congrats!

[Yeahmann]

I think the Hamer-logo Floyds were actually made by Schaller (outside of a few OFR bridges), and I think Schaller OEM'd for a few different brands and swapped out the logos as needed. I think Schaller also went to replaceable nuts (where the intonation screw bolts to the baseplate) on their own bridges prior to changing the OEM bridges. As far as the headstock logo, not everything had the stadium logo and that one looks normal to me - any sign of repairs etc as in a refinish? It just might be that you got lucky and scored a 'Closet Classic' Hamer (we can use that phrase since Hamer is a subsidiary now - can't wait for the Relics and all degrees in between).

looks like a score - what's the rest of that one look like?

Congrats!

Thanks for the reply. . i think this probably is just one beautiful guitar. .when i first saw it . . i think i was a little scared to beleive it . . and yes there are dots between the U.S.A. more pictures coming and thanks to all who replied

no evidence of one scratch or mark at all the seller said he literally kept it under his bed for the last 20 years and that he had another guitar he played. if its been repaired then i guess it was a darn good job

[kurtsstuff]

Yup!!! Total fake...forgery,fraud but....I'll give ya $350.00 for it and

use it as a backup....

Seriously though...For some reason This guitar is screaming to me...I USED TO HAVE BLACK HARDWARE!!!

Could be my inner child speaking though...????

[Yeahmann]

lol. . . ironically i AM using it as a backup for you know what kurt. . i swore after i bought that guitar from you(which i've played everyday since i got it) i'd never need another one. . . then i saw this one come up. . going broke fast.

[kurtsstuff]

lol. . . ironically i AM using it as a backup for you know what kurt. . i swore after i bought that guitar from you(which i've played everyday since i got it) i'd never need another one. . . then i saw this one come up. . going broke fast.

I buy and sell and wheel and deal myself into "Broke" all the time

Ya get used to it......hehe

[Yeahmann]

wow kurt what a great concept . . buy and sell. . for some reason i'm only able to do the buying and cant ever seem to part with what i get. . maybe if i did do a little selling it would improve my cash flow a bit. .interested in a one of a kind Soldano SLO-100 Combo?

[Yeahmann]

What's the marked like for Steve Stevens guitars? as hot as the californian? i got two i may look at selling.

[cmatthes]

Calis are WAY hotter than SS models.

[Yeahmann]

Calis are WAY hotter than SS models.

Great. .just my luck . .i kinda "bargained" with my wife that i'd sell my 2 SS when i bought this last Cali. .i may be better off keeping em though

or i could sell this i suppose because it has a scalloped fretboard and i dont really use it.

[kurtsstuff]

Calis are WAY hotter than SS models.

Great. .just my luck . .i kinda "bargained" with my wife that i'd sell my 2 SS when i bought this last Cali. .i may be better off keeping em though

or i could sell this i suppose because it has a scalloped fretboard and i dont really use it.

How much for the Cali....pm me....

[Yeahmann]

how much do you think the SS's are worth. . black one is 9.5 condition . .pink 9 or 8.5 on a 10 scale roughly in my honest opinion but before i would sell i'd get an unbiased second opinion on the conditions.

[serial]

how much do you think the SS's are worth. . black one is 9.5 condition . .pink 9 or 8.5 on a 10 scale roughly in my honest opinion but before i would sell i'd get an unbiased second opinion on the conditions.

The granite one definitely more than the pink. The pink one's got some mods and pink's a tough color sometimes (although I don't mind it on the right guitar). The market on SS guitars isn't what Calis are-they seem to be the hot non-Sunburst or four digit Hamers at the moment.

On a positive, the ebony boarded SS1s w/crowns are the more desirable ones.

A Schaller Floyd is not original-most likely Kurt is right that the hardware was swapped out-they should all have the "Hamer" stamp on them in 88-are the tuners Hamer branded? The logo looks like a 90s logo too-I've not seen many of those (if any) on 88 Calis, but the SN is definitely correct for an 88. Unfortunately, I have the page w/serial numbers just past this one (by about 20-30 guitars), so I can't tell what it was originally. Still, it looks great.

[Yeahmann]

The tuners have "S" in scripted (cursive) assuming they are schaller as well The actual seriel number is 820831 . .

now i'm suspect again.. .part of me doesnt care, its a beautiful guitar as it is now. but part of me is a little irritated especially since the seller listed the guitar in the following way:

This auction is an as new - MINT 1988 USA Made Hamer Californian. Serial # 820831. I bought 2 of these in '88, a white one and this one. This one I stashed away and did not play. It literally has 20 hrs on it from a once a year restring, setup and play. There is no playwear, and the guitar is in mint condition. This is a beautiful rare guitar, and as you can tell from the pics that it's in 100% as new, excellent condition. There are no dings, cracks or scratches on it. The pictures actually don't do the guitar justice as it's even better in person. The guitar is Trans Cherry with Gold hardware, the body is Mahongany and the neck is Maple with a 27 fret ebony fretboard that has all boomerang inlays. It has EMG pickups(81 and an S) plus sounds and plays fantastic. Hamer hasn't made these in the USA for years and they are hard to find, especially in this condition. Feel free to ask any questions as all sales are final.

I mean they really make it sound like its all original wouldnt you agree.

On another note that is the cool thing about this site... there are definately folks here who know their business and who actually played and owned these guitars back in the day(i.e. back when i was living on mac and cheese, smack ramen and playing a much less expensive guitar. .could never have afforded a hamer back then)

[cmatthes]

wow kurt what a great concept . . buy and sell. . for some reason i'm only able to do the buying and cant ever seem to part with what i get. . maybe if i did do a little selling it would improve my cash flow a bit. .interested in a one of a kind Soldano SLO-100 Combo?

WOW! That's a GREAT looking amp!

As far as the Cali logo, not too sure that's original - doesn't look like any one I've seen from that era, but then again, anything's possible! I've had (and have) a number of '88-'91 Hamers, and the logos are all significantly larger.

[Yeahmann]

wow kurt what a great concept . . buy and sell. . for some reason i'm only able to do the buying and cant ever seem to part with what i get. . maybe if i did do a little selling it would improve my cash flow a bit. .interested in a one of a kind Soldano SLO-100 Combo?

WOW! That's a GREAT looking amp!

As far as the Cali logo, not too sure that's original - doesn't look like any one I've seen from that era, but then again, anything's possible! I've had (and have) a number of '88-'91 Hamers, and the logos are all significantly larger.

Thanks

[serial]

Anything's possible on the logo, but the hardware was definitely Hamer stamped on the bridges and tuners in 88 (after they stopped using original Floyds). Unless this was one of the "between the cracks" guitars, but that wouldn't explain the tuners. Of course a lot of people (myself included) have swapped out the stock hardware to a different finish-I just always did it with Hamer branded stuff b/c I always have/had it around.

STILL a cool guitar!

[Yeahmann]

I have an update on this guitar for anyone interested. The seller who is a hamer fan since forever said that when he bought this and another cali, Hamer was shipping the off color (i.e. gold) tremolo's with the Schaller logos because they werent selling tons of the gold ones at the time and didnt keep "Hamer" branded gold tremolo's in stock. after having some good dialogue with the seller, i feel pretty good about this guitar and think it's the real deal.

[serial]

I have an update on this guitar for anyone interested. The seller who is a hamer fan since forever said that when he bought this and another cali, Hamer was shipping the off color (i.e. gold) tremolo's with the Schaller logos because they werent selling tons of the gold ones at the time and didnt keep "Hamer" branded gold tremolo's in stock. after having some good dialogue with the seller, i feel pretty good about this guitar and think it's the real deal.

That's a plausible explanation I would think. Most of what you saw in the late 80s was either the stock chrome or black. I had two NOS gold Hamer Floyds that I got to put on matching blue flamebody Calis that I had, but I sold the Calis before I could do the conversion. Sold the trems, but I still have a set or two of gold reverse Hamer tuners around.

[murkat]

"or i could sell this i suppose because it has a scalloped fretboard and i dont really use it."

oh yeah! scallops! yummy

[JustKid]

I have a lot of cali's ( and that really is a lot) and one thing I know ( and I thought i knew it for sure) that small logos appeared in the 90's (and I'm still sure of that). And another - transparent ones I owned and still do, also were from mid 90's, 93-94-95. I've never had one transparent mahagony from 80's, or 90-91.

So if I did not see any serial on it , I'd say 94'. Also 2 knobs and EMG's were for deluxe models, but deluxes were made of alder. This one is really strange, but nice, might be special order???.

Fake logos are easy to see, they usually carry big USA letters, like the one on the bottom , top one is 94 (i'm doing refin right now, someone sanded off everything and painted over the original logo , so I got this logo form the guy from germany, I also had silkskreen made from one of my 94's before that, it was exact , cost me $150 to make, but put it inside the guitarplayer magazine and forgot in Samash, while was talking to one of the guys, never got around to order another one).

But , then again, I'm no authority either. Just was lucky to own a lot of them and say what I saw. Take a pic of the serial , close up , just curious to see.

[Yeahmann]

I have a lot of cali's ( and that really is a lot) and one thing I know ( and I thought i knew it for sure) that small logos appeared in the 90's (and I'm still sure of that). And another - transparent ones I owned and still do, also were from mid 90's, 93-94-95. I've never had one transparent mahagony from 80's, or 90-91.

So if I did not see any serial on it , I'd say 94'. Also 2 knobs and EMG's were for deluxe models, but deluxes were made of alder. This one is really strange, but nice, might be special order???.

Fake logos are easy to see, they usually carry big USA letters, like the one on the bottom , top one is 94 (i'm doing refin right now, someone sanded off everything and painted over the original logo , so I got this logo form the guy from germany, I also had silkskreen made from one of my 94's before that, it was exact , cost me $150 to make, but put it inside the guitarplayer magazine and forgot in Samash, while was talking to one of the guys, never got around to order another one).

But , then again, I'm no authority either. Just was lucky to own a lot of them and say what I saw. Take a pic of the serial , close up , just curious to see.

Cool. . The amount of knowledge around here is amazing. I will take some close up photos tomarrow and post them. I would do it now but am at work. i'll get em up as soon as i get up. I'll also add that the only other thing that strikes me as a little strange is that it didnt come in an original case. . i've thought to myself who would order a 2k guitar and not have the original case. .especially if. . .as he stated it sat under the bed for the last 20 years. Now he's been willing to correspond with me so i could potentially get more info from him but would like to group my questions so i'm not writing emails every day. BTW i've said it before but i really appreciate the help from everyone.