Great, Big Stereo System for Rock/ Metal?

[ecnal]

I'd like to hear some recommendations for a great rock/metal stereo setup; big watts, big speakers, great sound. I'm not an audiophile but like the way metal vocals, guitar, bass, and drums can sound through a good setup; in other words, loud is not the only factor, and in fact I'll be playing it softly from time to time and maybe some wife-music every now and then.

It will go in a large family-type room with high ceilings and an open loft area. I figure I need a couple tower speakers; I'm not opposed to a sub.

Only requirement is that it sounds great but can do that loud, detailed face-searing, guitar-oriented sound.

I have a McIntosh system in a car that seems decent, and some Paradigm/Anthem home theater stuff that seems good, and have admired B&W from afar, so I'm open to those brands. I just don't know who does the old-school rock thing the best. (And I can't figure out what system Jesse just bought on Breaking Bad.)

I just want someone to say "here's what you need" so I don't have to keep wading, confused, through the huge amount of info out there. I'd prefer to purchase it online as opposed to driving all over for a painful audition process; a lot of the stuff I tend to like isn't always widely available in stores anyway (like Hamer!).

Thanks for any help!

[JohnnyB]

I have to go cook dinner right now but I'll be back with some recommendations. In the meantime, what's your budget and size/shape of the listening space?

[ecnal]

I have to go cook dinner right now but I'll be back with some recommendations. In the meantime, what's your budget and size/shape of the listening space?

It's a big weird-shaped "great room" type room about 25 by 30 with an overhead loft and a couple nooks. The budget kinda depends; I'd consider flagship-type speakers but only if I could tell the wife what a great deal they were (because they were used or closeouts for example). The ultimate price is less important than the "value."

[JohnnyB]

That's a big fargin room--750 sq. ft. and the high ceiling makes for more cubic volume than is typical. There is a speaker that is well reviewed from an unlikely source--Cerwin-Vega. It is a fairly massive floorstander with excellent sensitivity (efficiency), but also wide frequency and dynamic range, and linear response throughout its amplitude. It's the Cerwin-Vega XLS-215. Although Cerwin-Vega home audio speakers have long been considered frat-boy tear-your-face-off-metal speakers, their very similar predecessor, the CLS 215 has been well-reviewed by the audiophile press as well, while they still have the frequency extension and dynamic range for metal and other hard rock, as well as for action/adventure home theater. Read a review here. Reviews for its predecessor, the CLS 215, are available from AV Guide (Absolute Sound) and here (Soundstage, a high end online audio magazine).

No shrinking violet, these speakers are about 50" tall by 17" wide and 21" deep, and weigh about 116 lbs apiece.

To power these properly and get something close to their dynamic capabilities, I recommend the Anthem 225 integrated amplifier. It lists at $1500 and provides an honest, high current 225 watts per channel.

In spite of their loudness capabilities, both of these components are capable of excellent transparency and subtlety while have the brute strength to pin your ears back.

As for the source components, that's up to your lifestyle and personal preferences. You could get a laptop or iPad and turn it into a digital music server, or get a Logitech Squeezebox Touch to manage digital files from your computer (via wi-fi or ethernet), digital subscription services, and/or USB thumb drive. There are also still several very good CD players on the market. If you have capability to play vinyl, the Anthem has a decent built-in phono preamp. I also recommend decent interconnects and speaker cables to keep the signal transfers as clean as lossless as possible between the components.

[Feynman]

Being willing to buy used, with a large room, and a sizable budget...excellent! You have zillions of options, as you know.

I just helped a friend build a home theater, and we were able to score a pair of Dunlavy SC-IV/A and a couple of older Sunfire amps for $2300, which I considered a shameful price for such nice equipment (Hamer-esque).

Of course, that's just one example and may not suit you at all. He certainly lacks nothing in terms of superb musical reproduction, has the capability of extreme volume, and has built a rather formidable HT setup with it. The Dunlavys won't fit in your car, but a $20 local U-Haul rental got them moved without issue.

So many good choices...I am envious - good luck.

P.S. Being paralyzed by choices is my specialty, so I am no help on that front.

[ecnal]

Thanks for the thoughts. I love this forum.

[JohnnyB]

The budget kinda depends; I'd consider flagship-type speakers but only if I could tell the wife what a great deal they were (because they were used or closeouts for example). The ultimate price is less important than the "value."

In that case, you may want to consider the Mirage OMD-28 on closeout from Vann's.

While not quite as huge as the Cerwin-Vegas, they are formidable at 11.0" W x 46.5" H x 13.0" D, and weigh 76 lbs. each. More to the point, however, is that these were Mirage's flagship speaker at $7500/pair until Klipsch bought Mirage and has discontinued their high end audiophile floorstanding speakers. I have the little brother of these, the OMD-15, also in a large, vaulted ceiling living space and the Mirage approach is perfect for large irregular shaped listening areas. The special configuration of the midrange, tweeter, and their omnidirectional waveguides energize the room similarly to how live instruments and voices do. The result is that you get excellent tonal balance anywhere in the room, sitting or standing, and the timbres are spot-on because of the realistic interaction with the room.

These speakers are highly refined and were considered overachievers even at their original $7500/pair. You won't need a subwoofer as they are linear down into the sub-30Hz region, and can easily overload smaller rooms with bass. Your larger irregular listening area would be perfect. Vann's price is about $2800/pair, includes free shipping and a 7-day return period, and full Mirage 5-year factory warranty. They're available in rosewood or gloss piano black. Unfortunately Vann's is out of the spalted maple finish.

As with any non-horn floorstander in a large room, these require high current, high power amplification to bring out their best. The Soundstage reviewer (see below for link) mentions that he got excellent dynamic range in a large listening room with 150 wpc. So that Anthem 225 I mentioned earlier would be up for it. If you want to get more ambitious, you could bi-amp (and jumper to the tweeter terminals) or tri-amp to get the ultimate dynamics and clarity. If you use a single amp and single pair of speaker cables, I do recommend that you get quality aftermarket speaker jumpers to replace the factory brass bar jumpers. A high-resolution speaker like the OMD-28 will easily reveal the difference. Also, you'll find that these speakers sound good out of the box, but will take 100 hours playing time to show something of what they can do, and they'll continue to sound better and more refined over the next 500 hours of play. By the end of the first year with my OMD-15s I couldn't believe how good they became and how deeply I could hear into the recordings--way beyond my already-high expectations.

Here's the review by The Absolute Sound, one of the pickiest high end rags out there. The reviewer bought the review pair and used them as his reference for awhile after that. And here's a review by Soundstage Online.

If I had the cash and space, I'd have a pair of these OMD-28s, no question.

[Armitage]

Speakers are really personal... but for a stereo preamp and power amp and gobs of high current power, I'd be looking at a Emotiva USP-1 stereo preamp, http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm and XPA-2 300 watt per channel power amp (75 lbs!). http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm

They sell direct and are very highly rated.

[ecnal]

After some soul-searching, I decided to order up the Cerwin Vegas. I decided against the Mirages because I already have some Paradigm towers for my home theater that are similar in size, plus I wanted to try the straight-up cheesy old school box speakers that remind me of the Quiet Riot "Metal Health" video.

JohnnyB, what is a good alternative to the Anthem 225 that is similar (or more) powerful that I can just order online? Amazon's bringing me the speakers Friday so I'm antsy. Budget is probably $3-5k, depending on what I'm getting for the money or what I could get for a little more.

Holy moly, Armitage, I think you were reading my mind as I was typing!

[Feynman]

Be sure to tell us all about them. Congrats!

[JohnnyB]

After some soul-searching, I decided to order up the Cerwin Vegas. I decided against the Mirages because I already have some Paradigm towers for my home theater that are similar in size, plus I wanted to try the straight-up cheesy old school box speakers that remind me of the Quiet Riot "Metal Health" video.

JohnnyB, what is a good alternative to the Anthem 225 that is similar (or more) powerful that I can just order online? Amazon's bringing me the speakers Friday so I'm antsy. Budget is probably $3-5k, depending on what I'm getting for the money or what I could get for a little more.

Holy moly, Armitage, I think you were reading my mind as I was typing!

Yep, check out Emotiva. It was good for Armitage to bring them to our attention. My post mentioned them but I had edited it out for simplification. It's hard to decide when and what to cut.

Preamp: Emotiva USP-1. That's a ridiculous price for a remote-controlled preamp with built-in phono stage. Looks cool too.

I also totally agree with Armitage on the amp. The Cerwin Vegas don't need a lot of power to get loud, but more power gives better transients and bass control, something you need with twin 15" woofers. So let's go with the Emotiva XPA-2 power amp.

The two together are $1249, less than the Anthem (though the Anthem is great), and has almost 50% more power.

[Feynman]

Can we come over?

[ecnal]

Can we come over?

Please do!

[Toadroller]

Can we come over?

Please do!

Or just turn it up so we can all hear it.

Ah, hi-fi.

It's been a solid four years since I've sat down for a listening session, and my equipment is scattered about the house as a result of renovations and different priorities. Under beds, in closets, big ole Snell B Minors stacked in a corner near the kitchen table (!!) covered with an afghan. , and amps serving as a bedroom PA to a cheap closed 2x12 cab, with a digitech stomp-box/amp simulator at the front end.

Mostly late 80s/early 90s stuff; what I'd wanted as a twenty year old and found on eBay as a thirty year old and was more than pleased with. Speaker placement is a fun hobby and a mix of dark arts and scientific theory half understood.

I did recently drop off some cheap receivers and turntables at a local repair shop. Struck a bargain with the guy- these are yours if you'll fix my two CD players.

I think in another two years I'll have the right room in the house ready, and then will have some fun rediscovering what a real stereo sounds like, what music can sound like.

The Beach Boys "Good Vibrations" came on the car radio yesterday and I got to really listen to it. My fifteen year old asked me to turn it down. For shame.

Enjoy the monstrous new party system!

[ecnal]

Well, I've tried to get the CV's for a couple weeks now. I have had 4 speakers shipped via UPS from Amazon, and 3 out of four have been so damaged you could tell just by looking in the holes in the box without actually opening them! I'm tempted not to open the 4th box because it looks pretty beat up too.

Who has suggestions of equivalently big tower speakers from a company that knows how to pack them?

[JohnnyB]

Who has suggestions of equivalently big tower speakers from a company that knows how to pack them?

PSB Image T6. Not quite as sensitive as the CV's, but built (especially cabinet rigidity & integrity) to a higher standard with excellent in-house designed and manufactured drivers. It should be able to hit peak SPLs around 115 dB. About the same price as the CVs at $1200/pair in black or cherry. Full professional review here.

If you want something that will give you everything you could imagine and will blow your mind every time you turn on the stereo, look into the GoldenEar Triton Two Tower at $2500/pair. Each tower includes a built-in powered subwoofer that gives you full linear bass response down to about 20 Hz. I've heard these and they are phenomenal, competitive with speakers in the $5K-to-$10K range. Professional review here.

I don't know where you live. The Dealer Locator is here.

[Armitage]

I've heard both of those recently, and they're both very nice, get a sub with the PSB though.

[JohnnyB]

I've heard both of those recently, and they're both very nice, get a sub with the PSB though.

Although the GoldenEar costs more, it has a 1200w powered sub in each tower and because of that has fairly modest amp requirements. Although the speakers are more, you don't need separate subs and can save on amplification as well. You wouldn't need a 300 wpc Emotiva rig to power the GoldenEar. In fact, a 100 to 150 wpc integrated amp would be plenty, even in a big room.

[Brewmaster]

Johnny B, you have me saving my nickels and dimes again.

I really need to learn not to read these threads.

[JohnnyB]

Johnny B, you have me saving my nickels and dimes again.

I really need to learn not to read these threads.

What in this thread has caught your attention in particular?

[Brewmaster]

Johnny B, you have me saving my nickels and dimes again.

I really need to learn not to read these threads.

What in this thread has caught your attention in particular?

The PSB Image T6 and the Mirage OMD 28 speakers. I bought an Onkyo Receiver(NR809) a couple of months ago and have been using my old KEF C-45 speakers up front. I had been looking at the Mirages and PSB speakers to take their place so I can return the KEFs to my music only system.

This thread has me licking my chops again and getting impatient.

[zenmindbeginner]

My simple Paradigm/Cambridge Audio system is cheap as shit and sounds awesome.

I love Paradigms for their price and their dry and crisp sound, reminds me a lot of a Duncan JB.

NAD makes good solid shit... Onkyo is great for the price and features too.

I canceled my subscription to Stereophile years ago. Home audio for the jet set? What a load of cork sniffing crap... pure vanity and mirror gazing.

[Armitage]

The new, this year/just released, Paradigms are really nice. A big improvement IMHO.

[JohnnyB]

What in this thread has caught your attention in particular?

The PSB Image T6 and the Mirage OMD 28 speakers. I bought an Onkyo Receiver(NR809) a couple of months ago and have been using my old KEF C-45 speakers up front. I had been looking at the Mirages and PSB speakers to take their place so I can return the KEFs to my music only system.

This thread has me licking my chops again and getting impatient.

You know how I love Mirage speakers; I own 11 of them. I use a pair of OMD-15's, the OMD-28's little brother, to anchor my beloved vinyl-driven 2-channel system. However, given that your power source is the Onkyo receiver, I believe the GoldenEar Triton 2 would be a better match.

The OMD-28 was Mirage's flagship at $7500/pair, and even at that was competitive with speakers north of $10K. But as with most high end speakers, it doesn't show its best without upstream electronics and cabling of the same caliber. The speaker terminals are set up for tri-wiring or even tri-amping. You can single-amp them, but the midrange and tweeter will be compromised in smoothness, coherence, and resolution without purpose-built speaker wire jumpers to replace the brass bar jumpers that come with the speakers. (I speak from experience with my OMD-15s; I tried at least a half dozen different jumpers and jumper combinations plus a couple of bi-wiring schemes before I settled on the Zu Cable-based combination I use now.)

The OMD-28 is an all-passive configuration designed to deliver bass down into the mid-20s if you have the amplification to do it. Even with my more modest OMD-15s, they improved dramatically when I inserted that overachieving Heathkit AA1600 (very high current 180wpc power amp) into the signal chain.

On the other hand, the GoldenEar presents a simple load to the amplifier--an MTM D'Apollito array with a passive radiator-augmented subwoofer system powered by its own 1200-watt amplifier for each speaker tower. It has one pair of speaker terminals and an AC cord to power the built-in amp. This type of topology is a more cost-effective way to attain true full-range performance at a reasonable price.

As for the bargain aspect, it's true that the Mirage is a $7500/pair speaker available for $2600, and sure, it'll work if you power it with a receiver and garden variety wire. But it won't be operating at anything near its potential. Like any good speaker, the Triton 2 also benefits from higher quality cabling and ampfliciation, but it doesn't require tri-wiring or jumpers, and it doesn't need a high current amp because its built-in subwoofer amp does the heavy lifting in the bass (where high current is usually needed). One more thing about the Triton: remember how frequency response is directly related to rise time? The GoldenEar midrange has a frequency response out past 20KHz. Although it crosses over to the tweeter well below that, what it means is that the midrange response doesn't lag behind the tweeter, which makes the mid/tweet combination sound more clear and coherent. This level of speed in a midrange is rare in speakers of any price, and is one of the reasons electrostatics sound so captivating.

Of course, if you go with the OMD-28's, you have my best wishes and will be getting an awesome speaker. It may just take a period of component tweaking to realize its potential. And that's not a bad thing. I bought my OMD-15s in July 2008, and they sounded good from the get-go, but I only just recently found the last piece in the upstream componentry to turn them into a sonically invisible conduit to the minds of the performers. I know that sounds crazy to the uninitiated, but with my current setup I don't just hear the songs, I hear and sense what the artist(s) were putting into the performance and what the engineers were doing to capture it.

[ecnal]

I listened to the Triton Twos the other day and have a couple on order. Thanks for the input everyone!

[JohnnyB]

My simple Paradigm/Cambridge Audio system is cheap as shit and sounds awesome.

I love Paradigms for their price and their dry and crisp sound, reminds me a lot of a Duncan JB.

NAD makes good solid shit... Onkyo is great for the price and features too.

I canceled my subscription to Stereophile years ago. Home audio for the jet set? What a load of cork sniffing crap... pure vanity and mirror gazing.

At my next door neighbor's request, I ordered in and installed a new 2-channel system for the living room a few years ago. Cambridge Azure CD player and integrated amp anchor the system. I went with Mirage Omnisats and small powered sub to fill the large living space with a minimum of speaker size.

I have an Onkyo A-9555 integrated amp which anchored my 2-channel system for nearly 3 years. I got it in part because of a very positive review in Stereophile. It was listed as one of their recommended components until it went out of production.

In fact, there are many products from Paradigm (including the entry-level Atom), Cambridge, NAD, and Onkyo that are not only positively reviewed by Stereophile, but also show up regularly in their Recommended Components issues.