T-51 Ash Wood

[FGJ]

Compared to my Cali, my '94 T-51 sometimes feels like it could anchor the Queen Mary down. I guess when Hamer advertised these as "southern ash" they were making reference to geographic origin and not the part of the tree, because I think many people are (intentionally?) misled to believe that "southern ash" is equivalent to 'swamp ash' (ya know, the submerged-under-water part of the tree that allegedly results in considerably lighter wood).

From what I've read, others also seem to have Les Paul-heavy T-51s, and yet others will have extremely light examples. What gives? Why was Hamer inconsistent about the choice of ash wood?

For the record, my T-51 has killer tone, and I'm perfectly happy with the guitar. But I was curious as to the choice of ash used.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

Swamp ash is a highly sought after, great sounding wood. The problem for luthiers is that it is also very inconsistent weight wise. Not only from board to board, but from one end of a board to the other! This is why you see such a variance in the weights of swamp ash basses.

from here.

[it's me HHB]

The light ones are alder w rosewood

[FGJ]

The problem for luthiers is that it is also very inconsistent weight wise. Not only from board to board, but from one end of a board to the other! This is why you see such a variance in the weights of swamp ash basses.

from here.

While that makes sense, it seems that most of the ash T-51s were on the heavy side. Also, if it's true that most of the light T-51s were the later alder versions, then how is it that Hamer was so unfortunate to get stuck with all the heavy swamp ash?

I guess my question really has to do with Hamer's advertising. When they said "southern ash", were they referring to geographic origin of the wood or submerged-under-water part of the tree (i.e., swamp ash)?

From what I've read elsewhere, all ash is northern ash (which refers to the type of tree, not the geographic location of any particular tree), whereas "swamp ash" only refers to the lower part of the tree submerged under the water (usually in the swamp), and that's the part that has enlarged pores resulting in lighter wood. Am I understanding the available information correctly, or am I missing something?

[cmatthes]

"Green Ash", is probably what was used. That is more plentiful in Southern US states, so maybe that's where the designation comes from. I'm not familiar with a "Southern Ash" as a species, but am always open to input from somebody who might know. The "Green" ash does not refer to a younger tree or anything, it is similar to White and Red Ash, and I have seen both referred to as "Swamp Ash".

[cynic]

Nope, no Southern Ash.

Of the 22 species of ash in the genus Fraxinus, there are six that are native to swampy areas:

Americana (White Ash)

Berdlandieriana (Mexican Ash)

Caroliniana (Carolina Ash)

Pennsylvanica (Green Ash)

Profunda (Pumpkin Ash, aka Red Ash)

Quadrangulata (Blue Ash)

Any of the above could probably be called Swamp Ash if it happened to be growing in or around a swamp. I'm not aware if the term is restricted to only the submerged part of the tree as implied by the OP, but he's correct that the lower and outer portions will be lighter in weight.

[FGJ]

Nope, no Southern Ash.

So when Hamer advertised the early Daytona and T-51 as "southern ash", they were referring to the geographic location from which the wood originated, with no regard to specific species of ash tree nor to any specific part of the tree which provides for lighter wood, correct?

If, however, there was no attempt made to obtain lighter wood, what advantage does "southern ash" have over northern ash (or over any other ash species which does not grown in wetlands)? It is all merely marketing baloney?

[Crimsontider]

The 96 catalog has the USA T-51 as Southern Ash and the Slammer Series as Swamp Ash. Does anyone here have the maple fretted Slammer Series T-51? For what Slammer's go for, that could be a good deal.

[FGJ]

I thought the Slammer series was called the T5? Did they change that at some point, or has that been an internet misconception?

In any case, it's nice to know Hamer was able to source better quality ash from the swamps of, what, Korea?

[Crimsontider]

I thought the Slammer series was called the T5? Did they change that at some point, or has that been an internet misconception?

In any case, it's nice to know Hamer was able to source better quality ash from the swamps of, what, Korea?

My Mik Cali is hog, but of what type I don't know.

It's interesting that this Korean T-51 guitar is swamp ash, maple fret and uses the slammer pup's. That sounds like good specs for what the imports go for. The Slammer Series have good tone, just a higher timbre from an inferior neck, at least that's what I hear.

The Koreans must use Rice Paddy Ash.

[Disturber]

It's interesting that this Korean T-51 guitar is swamp ash, maple fret and uses the slammer pup's.

Very interesting. Where this line of Slammer pickups the same as the ones used in the US Hamer's? That is, were they OEM, wound by Dimarzio USA? Then I'd take it they are very good pickups. Love to try them out.

[FGJ]

The Koreans must use Rice Paddy Ash.

Lol!

[Crimsontider]

It's interesting that this Korean T-51 guitar is swamp ash, maple fret and uses the slammer pup's.

Very interesting. Where this line of Slammer pickups the same as the ones used in the US Hamer's? That is, were they OEM, wound by Dimarzio USA? Then I'd take it they are very good pickups. Love to try them out.

Just out of curiously I looked around the internet and could not find a single picture of one. May have been another Diablo type gem of a deal.

[cynic]

There's one discussed here

[Crimsontider]

There's one discussed here

Thanks. Nice looking. I looked around, obviously not hard enough.

So these go between $125-$175 and the owner expressed how good it sounded. There is no doubt the Slammer by Hammer has confused the market. There is a SS Daytona online right now for $129. These are good medium grade guitars with near zero resale value. If you own one it's because you like it.

[cmatthes]

No - entirely different pickups. The only thing they have in common with the Dimarzio Made Slammer pickups is the name. Don't confuse them...