Who knows ESPs?

[mrjamiam]

I'm trying to figure out what this is.  Although it could, IMO, be a bit lighter in weight, it feels well put together and plays really nicely.

Spertzel tuners appear to be unoriginal, judging by an uncovered screwhole on the back of the headstock.  No markings on the back of the headstock.  On the front, there is this.

I've seen some different fonts for "Custom" in my googling, making me wonder if that could be an indication of different factories or build eras.  Of course, it could also be an indication of a poor job of counterfeiting, but this is not a decal over the finish.  The bolt plate is marked with ESP and a 5-digit serial number starting with 19.  It occurs to me that with this little marking, it could be a counterfeit, but as I said it feels very nice, the bridge's string saddles are marked ESP, which seems like a lot of trouble to counterfeit.  I haven't seen the neck off the body.  The pickups are not original for sure.

I see that ESP made parts as well as guitars, and that strat-types were among them (as opposed to superstrats).  If it was marked "Traditional" or "400", I'd feel like I knew more, but there is only this.  I can contact ESP directly, but there are cautions online about limited help from there due to loss of serial number records of lots of early guitars.  I'm trying to educate myself in order to be able to ask relevant questions.

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

[mc2]

That is the same ESP Custom font I have on my circa 1987 ESP Custom Thunderbird that was ordered by guitarist Charlie Sexton, through his endorser account back then.  ESP built a lot of custom guitars in NYC during the 1980s, although I am fairly sure they were assembled from Japanese made parts by ESP that they then imported to U.S....bolting together the custom orders.

Most of their stuff is made in Japan. But I think their U.S. stuff was pretty much custom shop orders in NYC and later/now L.A.

But.....there are a lot of those ESP repro decals being sold on EBAY.

There is an ESP users website in Australia, run by the top ESP dealer there, that seems pretty knowledgeable.

http://www.guitarsatbmusic.com.au/forum/

 

 

Quote

 

 

[murkat]

paging Jeffro to the esp info line.................

[mrjamiam]

42 minutes ago, mc2 said:

That is the same ESP Custom font I have on my circa 1987 ESP Custom Thunderbird that was ordered by guitarist Charlie Sexton, through his endorser account back then.  ESP built a lot of custom guitars in NYC during the 1980s, although I am fairly sure they were assembled from Japanese made parts by ESP that they then imported to U.S....bolting together the custom orders.

Most of their stuff is made in Japan. But I think their U.S. stuff was pretty much custom shop orders in NYC and later/now L.A.

But.....there are a lot of those ESP repro decals being sold on EBAY.

There is an ESP users website in Australia, run by the top ESP dealer there, that seems pretty knowledgeable.

http://www.guitarsatbmusic.com.au/forum/

 

 

 

Yes, the ready availability of those decals bothers me (in this case, and on partscasters or owner-upgraded Squiers sporting "Fender" I see on craigslist, and even a suspect-looking "Hamer" or two).

I'm aware that I may reach the conclusion that it's not what's on the label.  But, it doesn't feel cheap.  The body, while two-piece, has a nice thin finish that is settling into the grain.  I might learn more from the neck pocket, or at least gather more data, but I'm never in a rush to pull the neck off of a nicely set-up guitar.

Thanks for the forum link.  They don't appear nearly as active as HFC, at least in the Custom board.  Latest post from January!

[mrjamiam]

Also - neck is quartersawn.  Another indicator - to me, anyway - of a quality guitar, because it's getting economically unfeasible to turn a profit on faking it using these parts.  The bolt plate, sure, you could easily fake that, and a decal if it's on top of the finish would be a real red flag.  But this one isn't.

I see a familiar handle in the Aussie ESP forum.  Cool stuff!  Although they're not as active, at least not lately, the Custom board seems similar in comport to the HFC, which is nice.  I'll get the neck off this weekend when I can take pictures outside again - that appears to be key in determining whether the parts are all ESP parts.  And that's as far as I expect to get, given that ESP's early history seems to be as wild and free as a certain other guitar company whose fans' forum we may be familiar with.  Anything seems to have been possible for years early on, and records weren't always reliably kept, it appears, and even if they were, there's a good chance they burned.

[Armitage]

I've never been unhappy with an ESP guitar... 

[Jeff R]

Looks and sounds legit to me. I'm also of the opinion an 80s or 90s build and likely a custom job/order assembled using Japanese-made parts. I don't think it's a forgery reading the deets and looking at the photos. Logo and "custom" look good to me and I cannot see any forgery culprit attempting to turn a buck on that because they'd break even at best. Do you have a picture of the body pocket and especially the neck heel by chance? I'd like to see the markings (if any). That stuff is cryptic too (considering I've seen stuff written in Japanese in them!) but it may shed light. Those are superb strat clones period, only iced by the prices for which they can be obtained on the used market.

Edited to add a heel markings shot from my mid-80s ESP 48th NYC super-strat.

[kenjones]

I had an ESP Tele Custom that I sold right here on the HFC back in 2008: 

[tomteriffic]

Like Ken, I also has a 400 Series Tele Custom that was a great guitar, superseded only by my T-51.  It went to DavidE, and from there I don't know.  Don't think I've got a headstock shot, though.  Even new they were a great deal.

[mrjamiam]

I had a chance to take some pics today.  Neck and neck pocket, including shim:

And the bridge:

I appreciate the info, folks!

 

[luis]

The neck shape not Fender style seems to point to a custom special order or the like. I had a ESP stat in sunburst with rosewood board wich I lead to believe it could be a custom shop/special order (ESP has a order form in his website and they would do some custom features as Hamer). That guitar is a strat in all aspects a great strat all sotck (own ESP pickups are very good). I am pretty sure the guitar shown by OP is a great guitar. Altough I dislike that headstock shape a lot!

You can dating ESP suitars (strats/teles alike) by neckplate numbers, I have a 2002  Navigator NST-300M (fantastic strat) and nearly on a par with a Fender Masterbuilt I compare to. And you usually know which model you got as it is written on neck pocket usually.

[Jeff R]

Dating ESPs by serial number is very delicate territory. ESP will be the first to tell you they don't have accurate historic records. And keep in mind a lot of the stuff that originated at 48th NYC was customers walking in and phoning in saying "I'll take a sunburst alder body, mate it with a maple board 22-fret neck, I want Dimarzios and a Floyd..." etc.. and they slap it together from stock inventory. Keep in mind, ESP's USA presence was originally a "guitar parts" business more than a guitar business. They'd slap it together to fulfill the request and out the door it goes. A serial number often was an afterthought. 

The stamps we're looking at in the photos above are the types of markings you often see from the scenario I just described.

I've had at least two true custom-spec totally custom order ESPs over the years that were delivered with no serial numbers, no ink stamps, no nothing anywhere to be found. I've had cryptic batch numbers penciled in on necks like the one I shared above (and those numbers are sometimes), and in one case, a custom graphic M-II body with penciled Japanese-character notes from a builder in the neck pocket.

In the case of older ESPs, you're better off dating/verifying them using pot codes, cosmetic characteristics like type of headstock/logo/inlay, even the type of Floyd fulcrum stud used.

[mrjamiam]

I'm satisfied with the information I've gleaned from this thread, thanks all.  I conclude that I have a nice but not particularly sought after guitar.  I imagine that it will stay in the inventory for quite a while, due both to its quality and to the lowish prices they bring.

[luis]

I agree at some point jeff, but a lower number means a earlier made guitar, thus combining the serial with neck pocket marks would give you a clue. ESP keep the best wood for custom orders and upper range guitars. And the kind of pickups on the guitar can give another clue.  (altough they can use the same type/name pickups LH letters and similar for old and new guitars). Recent ESP use those Sperzel blocking turners which I do believe change the sound (I prefer regular klusons myself).

You are correct keeping the guitar end enjoying it mrjamiam, use it as a tool for making music.