Tom Holmes

[Andrew]

The Sunburst lookalike is back on eBay.de:

http://cgi.ebay.de/HAMER-SUNBURST-VINTAGE-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Is there any truth to the statement that Hamer out-sourced the bodies and necks in 1979? The claim is that Tom Holmes made the bodies and built a few of his own guitars from the run. Isn't Tom Holmes in Nashville, hardly a convenient local supplier? Does anyone know the actual relationship between Hamer and Tom Holmes?

I know we've been here before, but the conclusion was not clear.

Andrew.

[serial]

I know what the deal was on that. I've spoken to Tom, Paul Hamer and several guys who worked at Hamer at the time. Each side has an opinion as to what happened on a few points of disagreement, but I think I have been able to piece together a logical understanding of what actually transpired. The story is much longer than I'd be comfortable posting here, but suffice it to say that Tom Holmes did the supply of raw body/necks at Hamer's design and to Hamer specs (Sunbursts only). Remember that until 1980, Hamer's facilities were rather small. Their relationship had ended by 1980. I don't know if any instruments were actually done start to finish at Hamer's pre-Arlington Heights facilities. To me that doesn't make them any less of a "Hamer" though.

[Andrew]

Thanks Serial!

1979 bodies are actually much nicer than many later ones, so they are no less Hamer for being out-sourced!

andrew.

[BCR Greg]

I'd be interested in a show of the body thickness from 77 to 80. I have had thinner bodies from 77 to thicker ones from 80.

Measure your Sunbursts, kids!

[Craig]

Body near bridge measures 1.75 inches. That's on my 78

[Andrew]

Serial's well-researched anwser set me thinking. Now for 500 supplementary questions.

1. Up to 1980 the lower cutaway wasn't dressed away the same way as later guitars - is this a sign of in-house Hamer woodworking taking over from 1980?

2. The three-piece neck - did Tom Holmes make these, too or is this also a sign of Hamer woodworking?

3. The Dan Armstrong headstocks - cut in-house from Holmes neck blanks, cut by Holmes or all woodworking in-house?

4. I have noticed that the earliest Sunbursts have sharper edges on the headstock and longer headstocks - did Hamer get Tom Holmes to constantly alter the specifications as production rolled along or are there specific periods when he was producing the bodies/necks with distinctive specs.?

5. A few Sunbursts 0200-0300 have bigger dots (7mm rather than 5mm) - any significance?

The questions are endless and it sounds like Hamer are a bit nervous about this information (no need to be as Tom Holmes is well respected).

I have to admit that my all-time favorite guitars are 78/79 Sunbursts by quite some way - what does this mean?

I never heard of the Tom Holmes connection until this year - well done Serial for bringing to our attention.

[serial]

The 77s are thinner than the later "production" ones. I actually measured these and have all of that info in the text of this book project that I haven't been able to get finished up in the past year or so (too damned busy with stuff!).

[Guest galejt]

I have to admit that my all-time favorite guitars are 78/79 Sunbursts by quite some way - what does this mean?

We were separated at birth?

[serial]

I'll try to answer some of these that I have some info on, but my suspicions are that Holmes' operation was run a bit more loosely than most big guitar shops. As such, supplies of components such as inlays were probably not 100% consistent (it is my understanding that the dot inlays were done by Holmes' guys, but that crown-inlaid boards were done elsewhere which led to other issues and as a result far fewer b/c Sunbursts). It is my understanding that the difference in the 1979 and earlier and the 80 and later bodies were because the latter didn't come from Holmes, but from Hamer at that point. Supply source issues (Grover to Schaller tuners for example) were as much a part of the changing specs for Hamer as they were for other guitarmakers in the 70s. The old lucite Dan Armstrongs changed tuner specs b/c one was more readily available than another.

The three-piece necks were Hamer's attempt to rectify a neck-bowing situation that occurred with some of the Holmes stuff that was getting returned by end users (in addition to the stuff rejected by Hamer). I've heard two reasons for the neck bowing-one from each side, and each may have actually been a factor. Don't know about the DA heads, I was under the impression that Holmes cut things to Hamer's specs.

As for Hamer keeping silent despite Holmes' good rep, there were major "issues" between the two, so I can understand neither wanting to bring up old/bad memories!

I've spoken to just about everyone I can think of who is still accessible who would know any of this stuff with the exception of Jol, who I am not sure wants to talk to me about some things. To be fair to Jol, I haven't contacted him directly, but I've made some indirect attempts to talk with him in the past. My main purpose for this was that I wanted to have all of my information at least triple source-checked before I spoke with him so as to not waste his time. There are a lot of conflicting pieces of information from people and precious little accurate information in any published format, but I'm pretty comfortable that I've got most of the straight dope on the early days of Hamer down pretty well. There's a lot more I'd love to get answers to/information about though-Hamer has a very interesting and I think positive history as an American guitar company.

I love the 77-79 Sunbursts the best too other than the old Four Digit Standards.

[Guest bondedbybrick]

Great topic about the history of Hamer Sunbursts. Thanks for all the indormation. FWIW, my 78 Black Sunburst has a body thickness of 1 5/8". Thin, or thick??

Derek

[acb]

as requested - 77 sunburst measures 1 5/8" width, same as above

[kenjones]

1979 Sunburst: 1 5/8" body thickness (1 7/8" with binding)

[Greg G]

I'd be interested in a show of the body thickness from 77 to 80.  I have had thinner bodies from 77 to thicker ones from 80.

Measure your Sunbursts, kids!

Mine is 1 3/4" thick but I don't know what year it is since the serial number is long gone. It has a 1 piece neck, long headstock & the bakelite (?) cavity cover. No original hardware. Dammit...pulled it out to measure it and now I can't put it down.

[Guest bondedbybrick]

A shameless BUMP to keep this topic going! As BCRGreg requested, we need more input from early Sunburst owners on body thickness. I'm curious about the early Sunburst history because my black Sunburst has a body with all the characteristics of a '77 or '78 (bridge mounted on a wood shim, plastic cavity cover) but has a later headstock with no serial number. I can only assume after reading Serial Steve's posts that maybe my 1-piece neck was replaced with a later 3-piece neck because of bowing, or breakage? Hard to say.

Anyway - early Sunburst owners need to measure their instrument's body thickness!

Derek

[Craig]

My earlier measurement included binding.

[BubbaVO]

It's back...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...rksid=p3907.m29

Can (will) anyone give more insight into the early Hamer years provided by excellent prior posts?

Did Tom Holmes really invent the motherbucker?

http://cgi.ebay.com/tom-holmes-dc-3-guitar...1QQcmdZViewItem

Is he the designer of the Prototype too?

[serial]

Did Tom Holmes really invent the motherbucker?

Is he the designer of the Prototype too?

Mighty Mite did a true "Motherbucker" 3 coil pickup in 1978 or so. From everything I've heard (never had one), they kinda sucked.

As for TH designing the Prototype...

DEFINITELY NOT!!!

He was long gone before that guitar was designed. He did the rough work on the 77-79 Sunbursts. When they moved to Arlington Heights, he no longer worked with Hamer.