Getting a New 2x12 Cab - Avatar G212 Contemporary. Speaker choices.

[tbonesullivan]

Ok, so I'm thinking about getting an Avatar G212 Contemporary, with the closed back. I have two Open Back 2x12s, but really wanted something for a bit harder stuff with more of a tight low end.

Question is, what to put in it? Avatar has a bunch of "Avatar" branded stuff, probably made by Eminence, and probably very close to speakers they already make. They also have Fane speakers, which you don't see much over here, and they also still have the Avatar / Fane M65, which is supposed to pretty much be a tweaked Creamback 65 kind of sound. I'm kind of leaning towards those.

Then I guess, I need to think about whether I want a 16 ohm cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers, or an 8 ohm cab loaded with 16 ohm speakers. I have heard that speakers of different impedance sound different. Some speaker makers, like Eminence, make mostly 8 ohm speakers, with some 16 ohm varieties, mostly depending on popularity. Then you have Mesa Boogie, who wants all of their enclosures to be 8 ohm total impedance, and simply uses whatever combination of speakers achieves that, like how Marshall seems to always wants 16 ohms.

[JGale]

WGS dude had a blog article on populating 2x12 combinations. I cannot find the blog post, but tracked this down onthe website:

”The 12” Retro 30™ speaker is a brighter and more articulate version of the WGS Veteran 30™ speaker. The Retro 30™ also boasts deeper and tighter bottom end. This speaker is extremely versatile and comes alive on the dirty channel. For those who love to mix speakers, you should pair this with the Reaper™ or the ET65™.

Retro 30

Reaper

ET65

Also this: “Possibly the best WGS speaker combination we can recommend is the ET65 paired with a Veteran 30™. Your cabinet will sound more full and colorful than you ever imagined. If you are putting together a 4x12 cab, we suggest either an "X" pattern or the ET65s on top of the Veteran 30's.”

Veteran 30

 

[hamerhead]

I've used these on a couple of cabinets:

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/jack-plate-plug-and-play-mono-stereo    Pretty clever and solves a few issues.

My favorite speaker is a Eminence Lil Texas, a neodymium variation of the Texas Heat. Punchy, tight low end, rounded highs. They're a little stabby new, but once they're broken in, they sound pretty great (I use Fender amps, mostly). And they are about 1/2 the weight (4 lbs!), which is huge with a 4x12 cab.

https://eminence.com/products/lil_texas#description

[tbonesullivan]

51 minutes ago, hamerhead said:

I've used these on a couple of cabinets:

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/jack-plate-plug-and-play-mono-stereo    Pretty clever and solves a few issues.

My favorite speaker is a Eminence Lil Texas, a neodymium variation of the Texas Heat. Punchy, tight low end, rounded highs. They're a little stabby new, but once they're broken in, they sound pretty great (I use Fender amps, mostly). And they are about 1/2 the weight (4 lbs!), which is huge with a 4x12 cab.

https://eminence.com/products/lil_texas#description

One of the options for the avatar 2x12s is the multi-jack plate like that. I'm mainly thinking about whether I want the overall impedance when using both speakers to be 16 or 8 ohms. I have two other Avatar cabinets, both open back. One is 8 ohms with two 16 ohm Texas Heats with a standard "through" jack, and the other is a Multi-jack with two 8 ohm speakers.

I'm just thinking more of whether an 8 ohm cab or a 16 / 4 ohm cab would work better with my heads and combos. Almost all of my combos are set up with 8 ohm loads, so 8 ohms would work better if I wanted to stick them on top. On the other hand if I am just going to use this cabinet with heads, having 16 ohms available does add more possibilities, and also I could run it stereo... though I never run anything stereo. I just like the multi-jack due to the 4 / 16 ohm capability.

[django49]

Thumbs up on the Plug and Play.....I have built  them into many 2 x cabs and have had great results. (Use 2 8 ohm speakers),

Avatar makes great cabs. My fave (design-wise) is the Forte replica. You did not ask, but one thing worth consideration (if you like to mix open and closed back) is the 2 x 12 with Plug and Play plate. Forte top, closed bottom. Easier on my aging back than moving a pair of 2 x 12s. Granted, their version is VERTICAL, so that might not work for you.

My old original Mesa 2 x 12 (horizontal) closed back is likely very similar to the Contemporary and is a classic for heavier tones.

 

[hamerhead]

40 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

... though I never run anything stereo.

You should. It's glorious.

[Cboss]

5 minutes ago, hamerhead said:

You should. It's glorious.

What is the best way to get a stereo signal without ideally affecting your base tone?

In a closed 4x12 for instance would running it stereo with a plate like this really sound different and fantastically better than all four speakers same input?

[hamerhead]

49 minutes ago, Cboss said:

What is the best way to get a stereo signal without ideally affecting your base tone?

In a closed 4x12 for instance would running it stereo with a plate like this really sound different and fantastically better than all four speakers same input?

#1. Any sort of time-based stereo effect into two amps (basically a doubler, stereo delay or chorus that isn't dailed up too much). I currently use a Boss DD-6 on my live rig.

#2. Not different. Just bigger, better, faster, more. You will definitely notice it and it will spoil you, even with a closed-back 2x12 or 4x12. You don't want much 'effect'. You just need the split and a little time variation.

Listen to any stereo recording in mono. Then flip it back to stereo. That's what you'll get.

[tbonesullivan]

5 hours ago, hamerhead said:

You should. It's glorious.

I run some through headphones when I use my little Yamaha amp, but when I had a Carvin stereo rig, I just never used it. I've never really had effects as a part of my sound. I pretty much just use overdrive and reverb. Since I also have so many combos, I think if I did decide to run stereo, I'd just use those, rather than using a stereo cab. Still, it's nice to have the ability to run stereo, if I want to.

[tbonesullivan]

6 hours ago, django49 said:

Avatar makes great cabs. My fave (design-wise) is the Forte replica. You did not ask, but one thing worth consideration (if you like to mix open and closed back) is the 2 x 12 with Plug and Play plate. Forte top, closed bottom. Easier on my aging back than moving a pair of 2 x 12s. Granted, their version is VERTICAL, so that might not work for you.

The forte replicas have always been tempting, especially since I have been so happy with the open back Traditional 2x12s I have from Avatar. The 3D aspect is really fascinating, and they do remind me of the vertical 2x12s that Mesa used to make with the EVM12L in the bottom and a C90 in the top. I think they are only 22 inches wide at the top though, so it would really depend on what heads I wanted to put on it. I only have a few heads, and most would be too wide to fit on top of the 22 inch wide end.

[Jimbilly]

5 hours ago, hamerhead said:

You should. It's glorious.

A (subtle) phaser or flanger through one side is really fun, somewhat similar to using a stereo chorus, either way it makes the guitar sound huge, I prefer two amps/cabinets to a single cabinet wired stereo: it's kind of like having your home hifi speakers set side by side vs opposite corners of the room.

  Stereo echo is also good all by itself (like with a Boss DD-6, I've ended up with two of those somehow...) just the delay is ping-ponging left/right.  When playing in my basement, I nearly always run two amps with some sort of stereo effect. even just a small 2nd amp off to the side with something like a flanger into it really "opens it up".   Right now I have it split from the delay outs, and one of those goes through an old Ibanez phaser.  I emailed tech21 suggesting a flyrig with stereo xlr outs, they responded but didn't seem very interested in that idea, but it would be super cool I think.

[django49]

41 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

The forte replicas have always been tempting, especially since I have been so happy with the open back Traditional 2x12s I have from Avatar. The 3D aspect is really fascinating, and they do remind me of the vertical 2x12s that Mesa used to make with the EVM12L in the bottom and a C90 in the top. I think they are only 22 inches wide at the top though, so it would really depend on what heads I wanted to put on it. I only have a few heads, and most would be too wide to fit on top of the 22 inch wide end.

I still have a pair of 2 x 12 halfbacks. Great speakers, with the "Thiele" type on the bottom, the option of open or closed on top. Cannot  recall the last time I actually USED them, preferring the Forte types now. Note that Avatar makes (or at least used to make) a Forte 2 x 12 HORIZONTAL that is obviously wider. I have made a few replicas.....A bit of a different animal, but still gets the same effect.

I like to say the smaller (1 x 12) Forte sounds like it is 3 feet tall and 5 feet wide. But may not be everyone's cup of tea.

[tbonesullivan]

22 hours ago, django49 said:

I still have a pair of 2 x 12 halfbacks. Great speakers, with the "Thiele" type on the bottom, the option of open or closed on top. Cannot  recall the last time I actually USED them, preferring the Forte types now. Note that Avatar makes (or at least used to make) a Forte 2 x 12 HORIZONTAL that is obviously wider. I have made a few replicas.....A bit of a different animal, but still gets the same effect.

I like to say the smaller (1 x 12) Forte sounds like it is 3 feet tall and 5 feet wide. But may not be everyone's cup of tea.

This really makes me want to get a set of them, just for that SOUND. I am mostly a home player, and I play bass in bands. Having a cab that can be mic'd easily is not really a goal of mine.

[LucSulla]

On 3/22/2024 at 7:21 PM, tbonesullivan said:

Ok, so I'm thinking about getting an Avatar G212 Contemporary, with the closed back. I have two Open Back 2x12s, but really wanted something for a bit harder stuff with more of a tight low end.

Question is, what to put in it? Avatar has a bunch of "Avatar" branded stuff, probably made by Eminence, and probably very close to speakers they already make. They also have Fane speakers, which you don't see much over here, and they also still have the Avatar / Fane M65, which is supposed to pretty much be a tweaked Creamback 65 kind of sound. I'm kind of leaning towards those.

Then I guess, I need to think about whether I want a 16 ohm cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers, or an 8 ohm cab loaded with 16 ohm speakers. I have heard that speakers of different impedance sound different. Some speaker makers, like Eminence, make mostly 8 ohm speakers, with some 16 ohm varieties, mostly depending on popularity. Then you have Mesa Boogie, who wants all of their enclosures to be 8 ohm total impedance, and simply uses whatever combination of speakers achieves that, like how Marshall seems to always wants 16 ohms.

I just got two of the Fane M65s in today. 

[tbonesullivan]

38 minutes ago, LucSulla said:

I just got two of the Fane M65s in today. 

Sweet! I hope you enjoy them! I'm probably gonna put my order in tomorrow or so.

[LucSulla]

2 hours ago, tbonesullivan said:

Sweet! I hope you enjoy them! I'm probably gonna put my order in tomorrow or so.

Well, apparently half the damn t-nuts on this cabinet are loose, and I had to use a Dremel to get a couple out. A couple of others are too stripped to be used again. 

...so going to be a few days. Fucking Marshall. 

[tbonesullivan]

14 hours ago, LucSulla said:

Well, apparently half the damn t-nuts on this cabinet are loose, and I had to use a Dremel to get a couple out. A couple of others are too stripped to be used again. 

...so going to be a few days. Fucking Marshall. 

ARGH. I've never been inside a marshall cab before. All my Carvin cabs were well made, with T-nuts and such. Later on though I think they just were drilling directly into the wood for some cabinets. Good luck!

[tbonesullivan]

Ok, Speaker cabinet ordered. I'll let everyone know what they are like in the cab once it arrives.