Live Amp Sound

[Boogie1]

Hey, maybe you guys can share some ideas on live sound. I've noticed the past couple gigs that up close my amp sound is good. But then when I walk out to the back of the room the sonic quality sucks. Sometimes it sounds like a blown speaker it's so crappy. How do you guys dial in your amp sound to make it really carry and cut thru? What position do you mike your cabinet, how close and how is it pointed? I think that maybe I'm just not miking myself enough thru the PA for starters. What about presence settings on the amp?

I'm using a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifer and a Genz Benz G-Flex 2x12 cabinet and hoping to dial in my sound before we go on later and get some more tone.

[DavidE]

Could it be the p.a. and not the amp?

[kenjones]

Have you tried one of these?

[Mindseyes]

Have you tried one of these?

I just orderd two of those!

[kenjones]

I just orderd two of those!

Musician's Friend featured them as their "Stupid Deal of the Day" last week.

[santellavision]

That made my day!

[mathman]

Should they go in front of the amp or in the effects loop?

I definitely need one.

[Guitarseh]

Hey, maybe you guys can share some ideas on live sound. I've noticed the past couple gigs that up close my amp sound is good. But then when I walk out to the back of the room the sonic quality sucks. Sometimes it sounds like a blown speaker it's so crappy. How do you guys dial in your amp sound to make it really carry and cut thru? What position do you mike your cabinet, how close and how is it pointed? I think that maybe I'm just not miking myself enough thru the PA for starters. What about presence settings on the amp?

I'm using a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifer and a Genz Benz G-Flex 2x12 cabinet and hoping to dial in my sound before we go on later and get some more tone.

I agree with Dave that this sounds like a PA/mix issue, rather than an amp tone one. One thought: Where does your soundguy (if any) sit? If he is close and in front of you, he's getting an earful of your upper mids and highs (that are very directional) straight from your amp. So he'd bring down your level in the PA to compensate, which leaves you not filling the rest of the room.

Mark

[Zoner]

I'm using a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifer and a Genz Benz G-Flex 2x12 cabinet and hoping to dial in my sound before we go on later and get some more tone.

Boogie1, the above could well be part of the "problem" as that setup is a recipe for lots of boom and sizzle with out the key ingredient to cutting through a band mix - midrange. Too much distortion (gain) and and no mids wil add up to a very ill-defined and indistinct tone. Presence will only add to the sizzle and not help much if you want to cut. Some questions: what is the configuration of your band (other instruments you are competing with)? How loud do you play stage-volume wise? Are you using the same settings on stage as you do when you practice?

As far as miking a live rig goes, the classic Shure SM57 pointed at the center of a speaker cone or slightly to either side of that point is a good place to start, and then it will be up to you/your sound tech's ears and best judgement to get the best representation of your tone out front. The Sennheiser e609 is also a good choice for close miking and they are around $125 new. You can certainly spend more, too, but the key is to find the "sweet spot" for your mic placement and that will take some experimentation. From there, a little mark on the grille and setup is a breeze. Of course, if you play out and use house P.A./mics/sound tech it will be a crapshoot, but less gain and less "scooped" tone will get your sound to project better. I use Mesa combos (MKIIC+ or Subway Blues) and they tend to be mid-heavy, and they cut through damn near anything without having to use extreme volume. It is also a truth that often what seems to be a killer tone solo (like at home by yourself) will get totally lost in a band context, and conversely a tone that will sit well in a band mix might be obnoxious by itself. Z

[Special J]

I'm using a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifer and a Genz Benz G-Flex 2x12 cabinet and hoping to dial in my sound before we go on later and get some more tone.

Boogie1, the above could well be part of the "problem" as that setup is a recipe for lots of boom and sizzle with out the key ingredient to cutting through a band mix - midrange. Too much distortion (gain) and and no mids wil add up to a very ill-defined and indistinct tone. Presence will only add to the sizzle and not help much if you want to cut. Some questions: what is the configuration of your band (other instruments you are competing with)? How loud do you play stage-volume wise? Are you using the same settings on stage as you do when you practice?

As far as miking a live rig goes, the classic Shure SM57 pointed at the center of a speaker cone or slightly to either side of that point is a good place to start, and then it will be up to you/your sound tech's ears and best judgement to get the best representation of your tone out front. The Sennheiser e609 is also a good choice for close miking and they are around $125 new. You can certainly spend more, too, but the key is to find the "sweet spot" for your mic placement and that will take some experimentation. From there, a little mark on the grille and setup is a breeze. Of course, if you play out and use house P.A./mics/sound tech it will be a crapshoot, but less gain and less "scooped" tone will get your sound to project better. I use Mesa combos (MKIIC+ or Subway Blues) and they tend to be mid-heavy, and they cut through damn near anything without having to use extreme volume. It is also a truth that often what seems to be a killer tone solo (like at home by yourself) will get totally lost in a band context, and conversely a tone that will sit well in a band mix might be obnoxious by itself. Z

Yeah, what he said. Exactly. My best friend uses a Studio through a .50 Caliber through a Gflex 2x12. On his own, the rig sounds great, but when he plays with the full band, he just gets lost in the mix. It's probably not so much a problem with volume but with how you're EQ'ed, and how your tone fits with everything that's going on. Raising the height of your cabinet might also help a bit if you're not projecting through the room. Also, definitely make sure you're using a decent mic. As zoner stated, a 57 or 609 are great choices.

[Eric Weston]

"It is also a truth that often what seems to be a killer tone solo (like at home by yourself) will get totally lost in a band context, and conversely a tone that will sit well in a band mix might be obnoxious by itself. Z"

Sooooo true, my first impulse was to suggest more mids.....

[mattb]

Mids are your friend. Especially with a dual rec.