POLL: Marty Friedman vs Chris Poland -let's do it for real! :-)

[zorrow]

...and please don't forget to explain why!

[zorrow]

I know it's not an easy one, but for me Marty Friedman wins because he sounds to me slightly "more original" than Chris Poland.

OK, Chris does have this jazzy edge and a very interesting phrasing too, but I still think Marty spices things up more with his exotic scales and bends.

[silentman]

John Petrucci.

[coolfeel]

Malcolm Young...

[anathemata]

I think Poland's jazz background brought a lot to Megadeth. Friedman's talented, too, but as a fan who got into the band with Peace Sells, I found Friedman's work a little too exotic compared to what I had been used to hearing. Still, Rust is a killer a record.

[atquinn]

I went Friedman, but that's just for Megadeth; I haven't heard much of his stuff outside of Megadeth, but I have a fair amount of CP's.

-

Austin

[zenmindbeginner]

The exotic metal style that Friedman employs is beautiful and original. He employs Indian, Japanese, Chinese, Arabic and Polynesian scales and patterns in his metal playing. He also plays really strangely and mainly uses only two fingers.

Like I said before, Dragon's Kiss is a PERFECT album front to back.

Poland's "woman tone" is sort of annoying to me... I didn't mind the contrast with Mustaine's playing on Peace Sells, but for Pete's sake... crank the tone knob back up once in a while would ya?

His fusion playing is impeccable though

His tone... regrettable.

[Rodan]

I'll cop to some general ignorance of Marty's work, but from what I've heard, I don't get the fuss over him. He's good, of course, but I hear a mannered restraint in his playing that gives it a bland, ordinary feel. I think I hear a kind of clinical separation of the exotic bits he uses, too - not a part, but apart... I wonder if I'm missing something, honestly. I just cruised some YouTube bits and concluded that if he's not holding something in reserve, there guys like Doug Aldrich and Jason Becker (back in the day) who are better examples in similar styles.

I exclude Chris from the comparison because to me, he doesn't sound like anyone else. I mean, he can burn it down but it's in a style that's really his own - completely self-assured and really musical. Love his way with vibrato. I REALLY dig his writing, though. Bottom line, I think he just comes from a very original place.

A bit of the raw product, here -

[zenmindbeginner]

That was amazing!

Friedman can write a really good and engaging song... That Ohm rubbish is just endless wanking and ends up having no substance musically other than to fans of Poland.

I need a melody, good riff or engaging musical motif. I just don't hear anything in the Ohm stuff that I would call a hook or a moving theme.

Poland sounds like Satriani on acid... the man is amazing, no doubt about it. I just need more than technical ability or the ability to be spontaneous to be a great in my book. To each his own though.

If you know anything about Becker, they played together in Cacaphony... Friedman wasn't a weak link by any means. My band opened up for them once back in the day.

I dunno... Poland's incredible, it's sort of splitting hairs talking about songwriting I guess. Poland is one of the greats of metal and fusion and that's a hell of an accomplishment.

[coolfeel]

The exotic metal style that Friedman employs is beautiful and original. He employs Indian, Japanese, Chinese, Arabic and Polynesian scales and patterns in his metal playing. He also plays really strangely and mainly uses only two fingers.

That descriptions sounds finger licking good...lol Thought I was reading an ad for a fusion restaurant...

[Rodan]

That was amazing!

Friedman can write a really good and engaging song... That Ohm rubbish is just endless wanking and ends up having no substance musically other than to fans of Poland.

I need a melody, good riff or engaging musical motif. I just don't hear anything in the Ohm stuff that I would call a hook or a moving theme.

Poland sounds like Satriani on acid... the man is amazing, no doubt about it. I just need more than technical ability or the ability to be spontaneous to be a great in my book. To each his own though.

If you know anything about Becker, they played together in Cacaphony... Friedman wasn't a weak link by any means. My band opened up for them once back in the day.

I remember Cacophony, though I never heard a lot of them (cool that you had the opportunity to open for them!). And there too, I've only heard a smattering of Becker, outside of his "Meet Me in the Morning" cover (which was great). As I said, Friedman is GOOD, as far as I can tell. Beyond that, subjectivity being what it is, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I find "Saturation Point" up there, to be tedious and melodramatic. No offense, I hope.

I WILL say that I liked Ohm the best up to, and including their first record. But I have nothing like the criticisms that you do, for them. No musical substance or melody? I guess I won't try to convince you otherwise.

Certainly respect your opinion, anyway.

[coolfeel]

As I said, Friedman is GOOD, as far as I can tell.

I would have to say Friedman is well beyond good, dude is bad arse fa sho... I preferred the Chris Poland era of Megadeth mostly because of the songs and all. They are different players, both seriously talented...

[zenmindbeginner]

That was amazing!

Friedman can write a really good and engaging song... That Ohm rubbish is just endless wanking and ends up having no substance musically other than to fans of Poland.

I need a melody, good riff or engaging musical motif. I just don't hear anything in the Ohm stuff that I would call a hook or a moving theme.

Poland sounds like Satriani on acid... the man is amazing, no doubt about it. I just need more than technical ability or the ability to be spontaneous to be a great in my book. To each his own though.

If you know anything about Becker, they played together in Cacaphony... Friedman wasn't a weak link by any means. My band opened up for them once back in the day.

I remember Cacophony, though I never heard a lot of them (cool that you had the opportunity to open for them!). And there too, I've only heard a smattering of Becker, outside of his "Meet Me in the Morning" cover (which was great). As I said, Friedman is GOOD, as far as I can tell. Beyond that, subjectivity being what it is, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I find "Saturation Point" up there, to be tedious and melodramatic. No offense, I hope.

Tedious? Lolz. it's not Marty's fault that you have an intellect that is just too great for mortal men. Most of us normal folk don't find Friedman tedious.

There was some serious repetition at the end though, it was for effect and not designed to lull your brain into a predictable pattern.

Melodramatic? One man's dramatic display of emotion is another man's melodrama. I like emotion personally.

Poland is more in making the listener surprised and in awe than laying down something musically tangible. Some people aren't comfortable with emotion and would rather be surprised and awed... I'd rather be moved in my heart than have my brain tickled. Brain tickling only goes so far right?

There wasn't one theme that stuck with me through the video above or the Ohm song... short on substance and really just showing off how good they are.

I WILL say that I liked Ohm the best up to, and including their first record. But I have nothing like the criticisms that you do, for them. No musical substance or melody? I guess I won't try to convince you otherwise.

Certainly respect your opinion, anyway.

Hmmm... let me check more of Ohm out and get back to you on that, I think I need to give it a few more listens.

[atquinn]

...Poland sounds like Satriani on acid...

Huh?!? I can't come up with any sort of frame of reference wherein this statement makes sense

-

Austin

[zenmindbeginner]

...Poland sounds like Satriani on acid...

Huh?!? I can't come up with any sort of frame of reference wherein this statement makes sense

-

Austin

It's probably more like Satriani when I'm on acid.

Poland has a better tone even though it's a little too smooth for my taste. You hear just a few notes and know it's him immediately... Friedman's tone isn't that memorable. His tone is also CRAZY responsive... I don't hear any of that in any of Marty's tones he's had throughout the years.

Poland is jaw dropping and can render one speechless from his playing, no argument there.

[zorrow]

As Zen said, there's no question Chris Poland has his fusion chops up there.

However, Marty has a very sheer phrasing. He has a way to play you instantly know it's him -such as bending from outside notes into key, combining pentatonic-based licks with arpeggios and using unexpected wide intervals. His playing is very dramatic and moving.

I was a fan of Cacophony before caring about Megadeth at all. Jason Becker was a better shredder (well, more technically proficient) than Marty, but Marty had "something else". He had this taste for exploring new ways to approach soloing which made of him a very unique player.

In my mind, Jason Becker was very close to an Yngwie clone. But Marty was Marty, period.

Also, Marty's solos were (are!) very melodic, full of hooks you can actually remember.

And well, I don't really care if you can play one or one hundred notes a second. Shredding chops do impress and do add color to a solo, but what remains stuck in one's brain is melody.

Marty has loads of that. Chris Poland, frankly, quite less.

[atquinn]

One thing to keep in mind is that Marty composes his solos and CP doesn't; he's coming from more of a jazz place. A Cacophony soundpage was how I first heard of Marty Friedman. Aah, the Shrapnel years

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Austin

[Brooks]

Friedman can write a really good and engaging song... That Ohm rubbish is just endless wanking and ends up having no substance musically other than to fans of Poland.

wow. couldn't disagree more, with everything you said. friedman's great, but the tunes on that disc you burned me were very forgettable and generic (imho). i find polands writing compelling,"not endless wanking". but hey, different strokes; it's not a contest (so i didn't vote in the poll). also, i LOVE his tone w/ ohm, reminds me of holdsworths sound w/ tony williams lifetime.

(grammar edit, & holdsworth thing)

[triodecr]

I'm only familiar with both of their work in Megadeth. I voted for Marty because of his phrasing is very unique and a perfect foil for Dave's style.

[zenmindbeginner]

Friedman can write a really good and engaging song... That Ohm rubbish is just endless wanking and ends up having no substance musically other than to fans of Poland.

Wow. couldn't disagree more, with everything you said. friedman's great, but the tunes on that disc you burned me were very forgettable and generic (imho). i find polands writing compelling,"not endless wanking". but hey, different strokes; it's not a contest (so i didn't vote in the poll). also, i LOVE his tone w/ ohm, reminds me of holdsworths sound w/ tony williams lifetime.

(grammar edit, & holdsworth thing)

Poland's writing is compelling... I just don't apparently have the brain required to decode it.

My brain decodes Friedman quite well though.

Let's compare Shrapnel to Shrapnel?

First off, is Poland who had the benefit of recording this two years after Friedman's first solo album. Poland also benefited from metal recording techniques which were getting better by the month in 1990 (snares, kicks and toms slowly got more realistic sounding)

Now Friedman's offering

Much better comparison... wasn't really fair pitting 1988 Friedman against 2000 era Poland.

[Brooks]

Poland's writing is compelling... I just don't apparently have the brain required to decode it.

Much better comparison... wasn't really fair pitting 1988 Friedman against 2000 era Poland.

wait; 1st poland is rubbish, but now he's compelling???

i'm not pitting them against eachother, you and zorrow are.

i disagree w/ your comments

"Friedman can write a really good and engaging song...

That Ohm rubbish is just endless wanking and ends up having no substance musically other than to fans of Poland".

i find the friedman stuff you burned me (which i assume you did because you hold it in high esteem) very average forgettable shredder stuff.

i'm not familiar w/ his new stuff, or really anything he's done outside of that cd-r you made me and a few megadeth tunes.

but i wouldn't go on a public forum and say his stuff is rubbish, endless wanking and ends up having no substance musically.

[zenmindbeginner]

Poland's writing is compelling... I just don't apparently have the brain required to decode it. Much better comparison... wasn't really fair pitting 1988 Friedman against 2000 era Poland.

wait; 1st poland is rubbish, but now he's compelling???

Rubbish was a super harsh term for Ohm... everybody makes mistakes, i guess I should have been more polite about it. I've praised Poland in higher terms than "compelling" within this thread. He's amazing.

i'm not pitting them against eachother, you and zorrow are.

Right, it's just a fun poll, not meant to be really anything other than an exercise. It's not a definitive statement about these two cats.

i disagree w/ your comments "Friedman can write a really good and engaging song... That Ohm rubbish is just endless wanking and ends up having no substance musically other than to fans of Poland". i find the friedman stuff you burned me (which i assume you did because you hold it in high esteem) very average forgettable shredder stuff.

I guess one man's rubbish is another man's average and forgettable stuff.

i'm not familiar w/ his new stuff, or really anything he's done outside of that cd-r you made me and a few megadeth tunes. but i wouldn't go on a public forum and say his stuff is rubbish, endless wanking and ends up having no substance musically.

"Rubbish and endless wankery with no substance" and "average forgettable shredder stuff" actually have the same meaning, just one is more dickish. You're a little more high society than I am, therefore being on the classier side. My choice of words sucked, no bones about it.

Poland is amazing, no doubt about it, that clip of him soloing over that sustained reverb that Rodan linked to is incredible... Marty doesn't have that ability to my knowledge. Picking one over the other is just good ol' fun and this one is splitting hairs to the nth degree.

I picked Marty over Chris in reality just by a hair and 'cause I like Marty's songs better. But it could go either way really.

[Rodan]

I was GOING to put "Apparition Station" up, earlier. That is a KILLER tune and illustrates what I find tuneful, concise and exhilarating in CP's writing.

Again, I'm afraid I didn't care for "Evil Thrill". Honestly, if there's something I'm missing about Marty, I'd love to find it. Not so far, though.

I'll just say that the part between 2:13 and 2:22 was REALLY annoying for me. I don't get the musicality of that. Tacked on exoticism, y'know? Perfect example...

Still, don't want to make a mess of anyones lawn...

How 'bout just one more, to make my case?

[atquinn]

One thing I will say that is a bit annoying about Poland is that his songs seem to all have the same "tonality". I'm assuming they're all in the same somewhat-exotic mode or something. It can make it a bit fatiguing to listen to an entire album of his.

Also, and I don't think anyone's mentioned it; Poland, like Marty doesn't use all the fingers on his fretting hand. From an article on him:

Chris Poland’s unique playing style is often credited to a hand injury sustained during a school-yard prank. After having his books knocked to the floor, Poland gave chase to the opportunistic offender. The pursuit ended when a door slammed on Poland’s hand, causing him to lose the tendon in his pointer finger as well as all feeling in his pinky.

It makes me feel even more inadequate as a player when I think about that

-

Austin

[Brooks]

some cool insight on his multi note bends and their inspiration (jan hammer);