U.S. Made Philips ECG JAN 6L6WGB Tubes

[crunchee]

I was shopping around for tubes recently, when this caught my eye:

http://thetubestore.com/jan6l.html

But this statement on the listing REALLY got my attention:

"Here's an interesting side note: the JAN-Philips 6L6WGB tube has the identical internal construction as the Philips 7581A tube (the industrial version of the 6L6GC tube). The difference between these two tubes is only the size of the glass bottle. Although you may not get a 7581A's 35 watts out of the 6L6WGB, you can certainly get 30 watts without any problems. These are super durable tubes made for the US military in the mid '80's. Their specs are not the same as earlier 5881 and 6L6WGB specs from the 1960's. So to get to the point, the JAN-Philips 6L6WGB tube will work perfectly in any amp requiring a 6L6GC tube. Do not worry about plate voltages over 400V with this puppy."

My question: is what they said above truth, or hype? Does anybody use these particular tubes (they don't have to be branded 'Siemens', but they DO need to be Philips ECG JAN 6L6WGBs)? What amp do you use them in? Do you know how much power is getting socked to the tubes? What is their life expectancy of these tubes like, from first-hand experience? Have you ever had any of these particular tubes (not other tubes) 'melt down' because they weren't 'big' enough for the amp?

I did some searching around, somebody had challenged that, if the internal structure is identical to a 'bigger' tube (like it says above), then having a smaller glass envelope should NOT affect the power handling of the tube...in other words, bigger glass around the tube does not necessarily have the capability to handle MORE power, any more than smaller glass will REDUCE it, because the tube is operating in a vacuum. This kinda contradicts The Tube Store statement above.

These are fairly common tubes (or, they used to be), and I have a few matched sets (labeled Philips ECG, not labeled Siemens) that I'd like to use in higher-voltage Silverface Fender amps that call for 6L6GC tubes, so I'd like to know if these tube really CAN handle the power. Comments? TIA!

P.S. 'JAN' stands for 'Joint Army-Navy'; in other words, they're military spec/issue.

[gtone]

Sorry for the necro-post crunchee, but I just ordered some of these for my Bassman, so I guess we're gonna find out if they last in an amp with around 450V on the plates. I'll keep you posted on my results.

[Lockbody]

I'll be interested as well. My '74 Super hits with similar voltage.

[gtone]

Just dropped a matched pair of the NOS JAN Philips 6L6WGB's in my Bassman head tonight for a lark. Haven't even biased them, so take this these as very early and probably not fully qualified impressions.

These are short little bottles, seem close to an inch shorter than a 6L6GC. Plugged 'em in and powered up in clean Normal channel on low volume, played a bit both dry and with reverb pedal. First thing that hits you is they are not what you'd call a "sweet" tone such as that that comes from RCA's 6L6GC's. Instead, they sound very punchy and snappy, so snappy in fact that it inspires you to dig into some countrified chicken-pickin' and greasy Bakersfield double-stops through the clean Normal channel (SG Special was sounding almost like a Tele). After about 5 mins of that, I swapped over to the modded Bass channel ('Wrecked), wicked up some gain and gave 'er. Woah....now that's the ticket - muscular, full, responsive, compressed but controlled under gain, not raw or wooly sounding. Bassman sounded very Marshall-y in this channel.

Be interesting to know if these tubes sound like this because they're essentially 5881's that can handle a lot of plate voltage or because of something specific to their construction (or maybe because they're not biased properly, which is a very real possibility). Whatever, for this little "spin", they sounded like they'd be suited towards styles where you're really using a lot of attack to get that compression going. Prolly want to pass on these if you're seeking a tube that's sweet, rich and detailed, however.

Think I'll leave 'em in and get them biased so I can give them a better longer term review. Will try to give a follow up after putting some serious hours on them to see how they're putting up with the Bassman's voltage over the longer term. Prolly the only way to test the seller's claims for them in crunchee's OP.

[gtone]

Still in there, no probs to date. I'm a little slow ( ), so it just occurred to me that if one of these tubes shorts out, there's a solid chance it'll fry it's screen grid resistor also. Have to be vigilant for signs of output tube meltdown I s'pose and hope for the best. On a positive note, I've recently read about quite a few Bassman owners running these tubes with good results.

On another note, not only are these bottles shorter, the bottles/bases are smaller diameter also (closer to a 6V6). I had to "pinch" the spring retainers closer together to help support/hold the inverted bottles in their sockets as a result.

[JohnnyB]

If you Google "JAN Philips 6L6WGB" you will get several vendors' listings as well as their descriptions on compatibility, output, plate voltage tolerance, and sound quality. You will also find forums of guitarists and bass players who've put these in Bassmans and Ampegs and relate their experiences, which are predominantly positive. Some changed the bias, some didn't. The description at http://www.audiotubes.com/6l6.htm'>Tube Depot is a little more cautionary, but currently he's out of stock. There's just a short blurb on this model there where he says:

Finally, the JAN Philips 6L6WGB with the green or blue labels are a super bargain but are getting hard to find. They were late 1970s made in the USA, and are somewhat bright sounding, but often priced far lower than either of the above types. This may change as stocks become depleated. Generally, guitar amps that call for a 6L6GC cannot use these tubes without bias circuit adjustments or even modifications. Consult an amp tech if you are unsure.

Based on the forums these seem to work well in the Bassman.

[ArnieZ]

From what I understand the 6l6wgb is closer to a 5881 than a 6l6gc. Has more punch and less sweetness. The real issue is it's maximum plate voltage is 400 and thus may be very stressed in many blackface circuits. NOS tubes can generally handle this without failing but you might expect decreased life expectancy

[gtone]

Just a bit of followup here, in case anyone's following this thread:

After thinking about all kinds of melt-down scenarios involving my new-to-me Bassman head, I chickened out and put my RCA blackplate 6L6GC's back in. After playing them for about a week, I kept noticing how full and boomy the low frequency response was with the RCA's, something which definitely was not the case with the mid-forward JAN Philips tubes. The more I played the RCA's, the more I wanted the Philips back in the Bassman (whoda thunk?!). So I reinstalled the Philips, had them biased and haven't looked back since.

In hindsight, I really dig the strong punchy mids, the earlier breakup and the extra bit of compression - they're all really welcome qualities with a BF Bassman running through Vox 2X12 w/alnico Tone Tubby's. Admittedly, they're not as full and richly detailed as blackplate RCA's for nice BF cleans, but they cover that aspect reasonably well also when needed. I'm mostly playing in mild breakup to full-on crunch territory and this is where the little WGB bottles shine.

At $45 for a matched pair, they're a bargain for NOS glass in this day/age, IMHO...

[gtone]

Forgot to mention - You guys looking to run these in a BF/SF Super will love 'em - they're the tits for slide playing!

[crunchee]

Just a bit of followup here, in case anyone's following this thread:

After thinking about all kinds of melt-down scenarios involving my new-to-me Bassman head, I chickened out and put my RCA blackplate 6L6GC's back in. After playing them for about a week, I kept noticing how full and boomy the low frequency response was with the RCA's, something which definitely was not the case with the mid-forward JAN Philips tubes. The more I played the RCA's, the more I wanted the Philips back in the Bassman (whoda thunk?!). So I reinstalled the Philips, had them biased and haven't looked back since.

In hindsight, I really dig the strong punchy mids, the earlier breakup and the extra bit of compression - they're all really welcome qualities with a BF Bassman running through Vox 2X12 w/alnico Tone Tubby's. Admittedly, they're not as full and richly detailed as blackplate RCA's for nice BF cleans, but they cover that aspect reasonably well also when needed. I'm mostly playing in mild breakup to full-on crunch territory and this is where the little WGB bottles shine.

At $45 for a matched pair, they're a bargain for NOS glass in this day/age, IMHO...

Forgot to mention - You guys looking to run these in a BF/SF Super will love 'em - they're the tits for slide playing!

Thanks very much for the detailed info gtone, it sounds exactly like what I'm looking for in a tube! I hadn't forgotten about this topic, I was reading your posts with interest. I'd heard others say very similar things about these tubes, but it's always good to get info from someone with a similar frame of reference. From what info I was able to find, these particular power tubes are the preferred choice in Brian Setzer's Blonde Brownface Bassman heads (him & his orchesta was on Fox yesterday doing the NFL pregame show...and so were those amps!). The plate voltage for my '82 Fender Concert amp is about the same as in the SF Super Reverb, from what I can figure out, so these should work well...especially since I don't run the amp at max volume. These tubes should be plenty durable for how I use my amps, I think. Please let us know how they work out in the long run for you! A note about their manufacture, ECG Philips bought out Sylvania (in the '70's, I think), and these tubes were made in the old Sylvania plant in Emporium, PA, from what I can find out. Thanks again and Happy Holidays!

[Brewmaster]

I put a pair of the Phillips in a 59 Bassman I rebuilt for somebody a few years ago. I ended up tweaking the bias resistor and the amp sounded great.

He does gig with the amp, not often about 1 a month, and plays it in church.

He gets some real good classic rock and blues tones out of the amp and for his Jazz gigs he gets some real smokey jazz tones. Hell, it's everything a 59 Bassman is supposed to be.

He still has them in there. He says he bought another pair so he has them.

[gtone]

Necro post with a reason (long term results followup). Still running the first set of small bottle JAN Philips 6L6WGB tubes with nary a hiccup, always sound good and strong. Have long since changed the Tone Tubby Alnico Reds out in favour of WGS Green Berets in the Vox open-back 2X12 and that's the usual partner for that head. Also ran it with a Saxon Marshall replica closed-back oversized 2X12 cab loaded w/Creamback H75's, sounds equally at home with that cab. Both cabs sound so great with the Bassman, that I sold my '70 Marshall JMP (1987) last month, in fact. As good as the Marshall sounded, it was redundant with the 'Wrecked Bass channel on Bassman. Besides the Bassman head was 20 lbs lighter and had the clean channel with the glassy, beautiful BF clean tones that the Marshall could never match (so clean, even an acoustic sings through it).

BTW, Billy Z estimates I'm running those tubes at over 440V on the plates in case anyone's wondering about whether the little bottles can handle serious voltage or not over a sustained period.

Being the curious goofball I am, I even threw a new pair of the JAN Philips 6L6WGB's in my Garnet Lil Rock. Playing with fire a bit, as again the unit was not set up/biased for these tubes and I doubt the smallish iron in there could support 5881's/6L6WGB's for very long without issues. The Lil Rock's pumping out serious watts in spite of it only being a dual 6V6 in PP with cathodyne 12AU7 PI and single 12AX7 pre - perhaps in part due to the power tubes running at very high plate voltages Gar Gillies seemed to favour (upwards of 500V - Gar was one badass mofo amp-builder in his day!!). Though I didn't risk it for two long, the Lil Rock sounded spectacular with those bottles - muscular, clear, powerful with great thick mids and full bottom end. Breath-takingly, game-changing good, I must say....

[Thundersteel]

I recently acquired a pair of Sylvania JAN 6L6WGBs and an RCA JAN 5U4GB from a piece of test equipment, all USA-made. They were working when they were pulled.

I'm wondering what to do with them, as my only tube amp uses EL34s. Any ideas?

[mrjamiam]

I recently acquired a pair of Sylvania JAN 6L6WGBs and an RCA JAN 5U4GB from a piece of test equipment, all USA-made. They were working when they were pulled.

I'm wondering what to do with them, as my only tube amp uses EL34s. Any ideas?

1. Buy a new amp.

2. Buy an old amp.

3. Sell them.

4. PIF

[gtone]

I recently acquired a pair of Sylvania JAN 6L6WGBs and an RCA JAN 5U4GB from a piece of test equipment, all USA-made. They were working when they were pulled.

I'm wondering what to do with them, as my only tube amp uses EL34s. Any ideas?

Don't have any EL34's here to trade wit' ya, but I've got other stuff - new mic cable still in the pkg, generic volume pedal (passive), various tubes, guitar hardware, etc. PM me and maybe we can find something here that might be of interest to you.

Cheers!