Odd problem with my 72 Tele Custom

[Hfan]

The short story first. It has two volumes and two tone controls. Both volumes work fine but the tone controls only work if the volumes are on 10. Once you lower the volumes from fully on the tone controls have no effect just pretty much full treble no matter where you adjust them to.Originally I thought only the neck circuit had the problem and I was thinking a bad or fried pot maybe but then noticed it was happening with both the neck and bridge circuits.

Here's the longer story. It is a 2011 or so AVRI 72 Tele Custom so one humbucker in the neck position and a single coil in the bridge spot. I got it as a B stock with a few dings but it came with the greatest low action buzz free set up.Anyway back then I was deep into a Tele phase. The fake WHRB humbuckers Fender was using were pretty much considered crap and after getting it I agreed. I sent the bucker to Allen at Catswhisker who re wound it and added a center tap to wire it for single coil use as well. His rewinds were well regarded especially if you wanted a single coil option as well. I installed a mini toggle for that use and at one point had a mini pot hooked up between the center tap and ground to experiment with different resistances for different output balancing with the bridge pickup.  / tones or whatever. I also installed a Cavalier Fat Lion bridge pickup and four CTS 500k pots ( it came with 250s). While I was at it I replaced the horrible tuners  it came with ("F" stamped Fender trapezoidal shaped like back in the day but really shit..slippage and dead spots galore).

So with my project done I promptly put it away for a long time. I know, no logic at all..too many guitars and too little time for them really. Anyway, I got it out recently. It needed strings and I figured it would be a great time to pull off the pick guard (like 11 or 13 screws) and install a set resistor instead of the mini pot going to the single coil bucker connection. Turns out it already had one.installed a 2.2 k ohms.oh well it's been a while I guess I did it back then and forgot.

So I put the guard back on and new strings and I'm really loving it but eventually notice the odd problem with the tone controls. I'm honestly not sure if I just never noticed it back in the day or I did something when I had the guts out recently. I did spruce up  a funky looking ground connection on the pickup selector cable. I'm using it as is for now and will take it apart again after the strings wear a little (pretty much have to trash them to pull the guard) and I have some time.

I was just wondering if anyone ever had a similar issue. I tried to google with no luck I'll get a schematic or two to check mine and make sure I have mine right. I know that a lug of each volume control is supposed to be be grounded to the body of the pot..maybe I skipped that or something.

[Hfan]

It looks like this one FWIW.. Thanks

[Sugartune]

Wiring out of phase?

ETA - I’m no expert. Mine wired out of phase does something along those lines.

[Dutchman]

Boy... with all you’ve done so far it’s tough to do without having it on the bench!! I would start by pulling off the pickguard and testing what’s going to the tone pot’s and what’s coming out... I just modded one leaving the stock pickups in and changed out the pots, shielded the PU selector wires and added treble bleed to both pup’s. The Smile on the owners face said it all... he loved it!!

[Hfan]

On 10/21/2018 at 8:28 PM, Dutchman said:

Boy... with all you’ve done so far it’s tough to do without having it on the bench!! I would start by pulling off the pickguard and testing what’s going to the tone pot’s and what’s coming out... I just modded one leaving the stock pickups in and changed out the pots, shielded the PU selector wires and added treble bleed to both pup’s. The Smile on the owners face said it all... he loved it!!

That's an interesting concept..and brings to mind that I don't really know the principals of the circuit to start with, how it actually works regarding the interaction of the tone and vol pots.. I'll read up on that.I'll shield the pickup selector wires too.Mine do have an outer insulator wrap around them already.

It's just strange how the tone controls work fine if the volumes are all the way up but don't cut any treble when the volumes are turned down at all.

Thanks

[fasteddie]

On 10/20/2018 at 7:45 PM, Hfan said:

The short story first. It has two volumes and two tone controls. Both volumes work fine but the tone controls only work if the volumes are on 10. Once you lower the volumes from fully on the tone controls have no effect just pretty much full treble no matter where you adjust them to.Originally I thought only the neck circuit had the problem and I was thinking a bad or fried pot maybe but then noticed it was happening with both the neck and bridge circuits.

Here's the longer story. It is a 2011 or so AVRI 72 Tele Custom so one humbucker in the neck position and a single coil in the bridge spot. I got it as a B stock with a few dings but it came with the greatest low action buzz free set up.Anyway back then I was deep into a Tele phase. The fake WHRB humbuckers Fender was using were pretty much considered crap and after getting it I agreed. I sent the bucker to Allen at Catswhisker who re wound it and added a center tap to wire it for single coil use as well. His rewinds were well regarded especially if you wanted a single coil option as well. I installed a mini toggle for that use and at one point had a mini pot hooked up between the center tap and ground to experiment with different resistances for different output balancing with the bridge pickup.  / tones or whatever. I also installed a Cavalier Fat Lion bridge pickup and four CTS 500k pots ( it came with 250s). While I was at it I replaced the horrible tuners  it came with ("F" stamped Fender trapezoidal shaped like back in the day but really shit..slippage and dead spots galore).

So with my project done I promptly put it away for a long time. I know, no logic at all..too many guitars and too little time for them really. Anyway, I got it out recently. It needed strings and I figured it would be a great time to pull off the pick guard (like 11 or 13 screws) and install a set resistor instead of the mini pot going to the single coil bucker connection. Turns out it already had one.installed a 2.2 k ohms.oh well it's been a while I guess I did it back then and forgot.

So I put the guard back on and new strings and I'm really loving it but eventually notice the odd problem with the tone controls. I'm honestly not sure if I just never noticed it back in the day or I did something when I had the guts out recently. I did spruce up  a funky looking ground connection on the pickup selector cable. I'm using it as is for now and will take it apart again after the strings wear a little (pretty much have to trash them to pull the guard) and I have some time.

I was just wondering if anyone ever had a similar issue. I tried to google with no luck I'll get a schematic or two to check mine and make sure I have mine right. I know that a lug of each volume control is supposed to be be grounded to the body of the pot..maybe I skipped that or something.

Sounds perfect to me. Guitar volume should always be on ten.

[Jeff R]

Did you check it with multiple diagrams yet?  Post a good photo or two as well.

[Hfan]

I dug up a few schematics, when I have it apart I'll report back. May be a while though. Thanks again.

[HAMERMAN]

Maybe compare it to some of the diagrams here:

https://recibosverdes.org/72-telecaster-custom-wiring-diagram/

[murkat]

output of signal from pot is middle lug.

input from switch/ pickup right outside lug

left lug to case, ground.

take a pic of the pickguard showing the pots, wiring, post it. Will be able to help.

[Hfan]

On 10/25/2018 at 11:59 PM, HAMERMAN said:

Maybe compare it to some of the diagrams here:

https://recibosverdes.org/72-telecaster-custom-wiring-diagram/

Thanks for that link I'll refer to it when I get this thing apart. I've been using it as is. With the two volume and tone pots it really is a versatile Tele and I love the neck. I mentioned I got it as a B stock. It came with a few dings and an actual finger print in the finish. A very tiny one like 1/3 the size of my pinky, right on the front. No clue how that happened. Once the strings get old and I have some time I'll dive in.

Really I can't believe that I had this problem when I first modded it, I'd think that I would have noticed it then but stranger things have happened I guess, especially to me ha ha.

It also came with a little crack in the pick guard, I bought a replacement some years ago that has been stored away. I'll be transferring everything onto the new guard and drilling a hole for the mini toggle.

20 hours ago, murkat said:

output of signal from pot is middle lug.

input from switch/ pickup right outside lug

left lug to case, ground.

take a pic of the pickguard showing the pots, wiring, post it. Will be able to help.

Thanks for that murkat. Regarding posting pics of the guts I don't know if I want the world to see my soldering results ha ha..Only if I can't muddle through on my own. 

And thanks again for the tips you gave me for rewiring my SG Classic 50's style some time ago, worked out great.

[Hfan]

Well I finally had a chance to work on it and it was obvious right off the bat that I had it wired wrong. HAMERMAN, thanks for that link to the diagram, I was having trouble finding a good one, it helped a lot. So that's the good news bad news is I decided to clean up the wiring a little, I was obviously in a big hurry last time and apparently.  I hosed up the   two tone pots, they no longer turn smoothly, I assume they were heated up once two many times. I got the new pick guard on too..the old one was cracked..one of those 16 pick guard screws got torqued too much..will use a manual mini screw driver this time.

So I'll get two CTS 500k short shaft /solid shafts.. audio tapers I assume..Ill look around. Maybe two new .022 caps too.

Thanks again for all the help.

Edit: just ordered the above from mojotone ...thanks again guys.

[Hfan]

^^ Thanks I didn't know they were pre tinned. I'll use some flux too.

[Hfan]

Just an update..success! (finally)

I installed the two new tone pots to replace the two that wound up fried. I also cleaned up the wiring.. I had done a crappy sloppy job the first time. Some years ago I was a mister dad for two young kids and trying to reinvent myself in a new career entailing school etc. Time was limited to say the least. Messy soldering, maybe too many ground points.

The guitar always had a hum, more than I’d consider normal.  I assumed it was trelated to the extra switch I had installed or something. It wasn’t bad enough for me to pursue if not for the fact that I found the two tone pots were not working correctly.

While installing the new pots I re-did the grounds, making common points (no idea why I didn’t do it the first time, I knew better).  I also found a possible disconnected ground (or close to it) from the switch. I put a little anti static/grounding tape in a  few spots on the pickguard over the wiring channel and switch (probably no effect but can’t hurt). It is super quiet now, a little normal single coil  hu. In humbucker mode it is quiet.

I love it now. I have always loved the set up, super low action, great neck (AVRI vintage spec) perfect carve for me. I replaced the cracked pick guard with the one I bought years ago, redrilled the mini toggle switch hole (it fits in the wire channel), no problems.

The Catswhisker rewind of the stock Fender humbucker is excellent. I was deep into Teles and hanging on the Tele forum a lot back then. Catswhisker was a top option to replace the current (2011 or so) Fender WRHBs. Especially if you wanted a coil split for single coil neck option. My only complaint is the hot wires from the pickup are super thin,  hard to work with, I guess there is a reason for that, who knows. Great tone though, even in single coil mode.

Funny thing, right around when I bought this in 2012,  Fender came out with a new, supposedly better, version of their reissue WRHB which was not much loved in Tele circles, but they decided to use the same part #, no way to tell the new from the old versions, I contacted a few vendors back then even they couldn’t tell me what they had. One reason I went with Catswhisker. Alan was great to work with too.

I’ve never modded a guitar like this to such an extent. If I had known that the tuners (slippy sloppy) sucked and that there was a finger print( tiny pinky print maybe)  in the finish and that the stock Humbucker would suck, I doubt that I would have bought it.  But all’s well that ends well. Now I love it.  If I named guitars this one would be Pinky ha ha.

So thanks a lot for all the help, you guys are great.

Here’s a few quick pics: