Floyd Tremolo Claw and Spring Options

[chromium]

I'm doing another partscaster build with a Floyd, and had a couple questions...

I managed to get one of the "1984" Floyds for a good deal. Think its basically a normal German OFR unit with fat brass block, brass fine tuners, wood screw studs and screw in bar. Mainly got it since I planned to swap to that kind of block anyway, and it was less than a new standard OFR.

My questions are around the claw and springs.

Based on your own experiences, is it worth trying any alternative parts there?  Bent brass claw? Machined brass claw? Spring upgrades? 

I have two "run of the mill"  German OFR units running in two other guitars, and no complaints there w/sound, spring noise, etc... Just wanted to get opinions if there is another direction that is worth trying - more just to change things up a bit, and experience something new.

Thanks!

[scottcald]

I've gotten some of the coated/noiseless springs they have at different tensions, but only the black ones, not the other colors.  I think those are the standard tension.  Haven't gone the brass claw or screw path.  I've replaced blocks with brass and been happy with the result and have a Wayne Charvel that came with the brass block.  I did find an inexpensive aluminum block on ebay that eventually I'll try in something at some point just to see if it makes a difference.  

[diablo175]

I have fat brass blocks on most axes and noiseless heavy duty springs (red coated) in a few. I've not tried anything beyond that and frankly can't imagine how it might impact/improve the tone/performance.

 

[murkat]

Springs~ If you can find a pack of Fender Black color coated spring set, try those. The tension per spring is matched ans well as tinsel strength. Best I have found.

Claw~ not much there, if you can mod it to....

1.once you have your desired spring tension, lock down the spring claw. I would make a button slot in the middle of claw, wood screw thru to body and lock it down once I have the springs, floyd stable, where I want it.

2. install, sleeve springs on adjustment screws for the claw. Between body and claw.

 

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

I use noiseless (coated) springs and upgrade to a generic big brass block. I recently snagged an 86 Schaller-made Floyd (black) for cheap (off an 86 Chap). I always upgrade the old-style arm/bushing to the modern (Schaller) threaded arm/bushing. Always been a huge Floyd fan: love them...

[chromium]

Thank you for the inputs above!  Much appreciated.

I'm a latecomer to Floyds (<3 years), love 'em thus far, and still learning the ins-and-outs...

 

6 hours ago, murkat said:

1.once you have your desired spring tension, lock down the spring claw. I would make a button slot in the middle of claw, wood screw thru to body and lock it down once I have the springs, floyd stable, where I want it.

2. install, sleeve springs on adjustment screws for the claw. Between body and claw.

 

This is interesting, and I just want to ensure I'm understanding correctly...

Effectively, you are anchoring the claw (#1) and the sleeve springs (#2) are countering the drop in spring tension when pulling up on the bar?  Does that additional screw anchoring the claw offer a benefit on dives and/or normal floating position?

If it makes a difference... this guitar will have top mount floating Floyd w/no route. It'll offer slight travel to bend up, but nothing too radical there.

[Madchester]

I installed the Schaller sure claw on few guitars, I really liked the adjustments and increased stability but can’t really say it did much for tone. Also you have to aware of the screw length you use. The 1984 term does sound good, installed one to replace the Korean frt1000 and it made a huge difference 

[diablo175]

11 hours ago, Madchester said:

I installed the Schaller sure claw on few guitars, I really liked the adjustments and increased stability but can’t really say it did much for tone. Also you have to aware of the screw length you use. The 1984 term does sound good, installed one to replace the Korean frt1000 and it made a huge difference 

I've got a Sure Claw in my HEL Willy G (Interceptor) and the trade off in tone degradation is the impressive ease of spring tension adjustment. But honestly, how often do you need to adjust the spring tension unless you're changing string gauges or tuning? An occasional tweak when the seasonal atmospheric conditions change dramatically. Sure. But if your Sure Claw was installed/mounted with the rubber( plastic?) pad under the unit, take it out. NOW!  That particular item contributes more to the loss of tone and feel the most. I also noticed a moderate loss of responsiveness with the Sure Claw. Taking that mounting pad out helped a bit but not enough IMHO.

 

 

[Madchester]

2 hours ago, diablo175 said:

I've got a Sure Claw in my HEL Willy G (Interceptor) and the trade off in tone degradation is the impressive ease of spring tension adjustment. But honestly, how often do you need to adjust the spring tension unless you're changing string gauges or tuning? An occasional tweak when the seasonal atmospheric conditions change dramatically. Sure. But if your Sure Claw was installed/mounted with the rubber( plastic?) pad under the unit, take it out. NOW!  That particular item contributes more to the loss of tone and feel the most. I also noticed a moderate loss of responsiveness with the Sure Claw. Taking that mounting pad out helped a bit but not enough IMHO.

 

 

 

Thats interesting, there were no pads included in mine. One went in 83-84 Kramer pacer that was the heaviest guitar id ever owned, I think it just shy of 10Lbs. the PO had used some sort of lag bolt for the claw so it was great fix,I didn't really notice any tonal changes. The other I used in a mutt build so I had no point of reference if it made an improvement or not. the build was a HSS config which is why I warned about screw size 😂

And yeah, Im a set and forget type but its still a neat idea

[murkat]

22 hours ago, chromium said:

This is interesting

once  you have the claw / springs at the desired tension, lock it down in place. I just drill button, slot holes in it a spaces that have no springs.Button hole so I can move it micro adjust, just in case. Securing it to the body.

and, or...

depends on the tension adjustment screws that hold the claw, I will place a spring between claw and body (like a spring for pickup adjustment) the spring will keep opposite tension on the claw.

 

[HAMERMAN]

34 minutes ago, murkat said:

once  you have the claw / springs at the desired tension, lock it down in place. I just drill button, slot holes in it a spaces that have no springs.Button hole so I can move it micro adjust, just in case. Securing it to the body.

and, or...

depends on the tension adjustment screws that hold the claw, I will place a spring between claw and body (like a spring for pickup adjustment) the spring will keep opposite tension on the claw.

 

I think I understand what you are describing but can you post a picture so I can be sure I understand?

[chromium]

Thanks, Murkat!  That is the first I've heard of that approach, and it seems like a novel idea to promote good transfer of energy at the claw (assuming that's important)

 

17 hours ago, Madchester said:

I installed the Schaller sure claw on few guitars, I really liked the adjustments and increased stability but can’t really say it did much for tone. Also you have to aware of the screw length you use. The 1984 term does sound good, installed one to replace the Korean frt1000 and it made a huge difference 

Thanks- I'll check that claw out... and yeah, I had noticed an improvement also when swapping an FRT1000 that came on my '08 SOCAL with a German OFR (not sure if that was stock.. it had come to me w/a chrome hardware swap).

This is the first 1984 I've tried, and looking forward to experiencing the big brass block. Figured that if there is a sonic difference, it might be welcome among my stock OFRs.

I splurged on a stainless screw set for it as well, as I'm a sucker for bright-shiny-objects 

Teaser pic. (gold studs are a placeholder; chrome ones incoming...)

[diablo175]

2 hours ago, chromium said:

Thanks, Murkat!  That is the first I've heard of that approach, and it seems like a novel idea to promote good transfer of energy at the claw (assuming that's important)

 

Thanks- I'll check that claw out... and yeah, I had noticed an improvement also when swapping an FRT1000 that came on my '08 SOCAL with a German OFR (not sure if that was stock.. it had come to me w/a chrome hardware swap).

This is the first 1984 I've tried, and looking forward to experiencing the big brass block. Figured that if there is a sonic difference, it might be welcome among my stock OFRs.

I splurged on a stainless screw set for it as well, as I'm a sucker for bright-shiny-objects 

Teaser pic. (gold studs are a placeholder; chrome ones incoming...)

Sure is pretty!

 

 

[Madchester]

Looks ace with the stainless screws, Nice and subtle 👍

[chromium]

2 hours ago, Madchester said:

Looks ace with the stainless screws, Nice and subtle 👍

This one's all about the subtlety

[HAMERMAN]

11 hours ago, chromium said:

This one's all about the subtlety

Yes - Green Metalflake is great for flying under the radar! 🙂 

[diablo175]

3 hours ago, HAMERMAN said:

Yes - Green Metalflake is great for flying under the radar! 🙂 

I concur...

[HAMERMAN]

That is sweet. I always like the look of matching a headstock, especially in cases like this where it's an in your face color. 

[diablo175]

17 hours ago, HAMERMAN said:

That is sweet. I always like the look of matching a headstock, especially in cases like this where it's an in your face color. 

Funny thing is, initially I spec-ed it to be bare wood. I love the look of the Charvels with unpainted head stocks and  black tuners, locking nut and logo. Something about the visual contrast. Somewhere along the line, that request got missed. That said, I do like this arrangement but would have liked a black Hamer logo as it would stand out more.

[chromium]

That Hamer came out great, and I've wanted something that color for a long time.

The headstock color choice on mine will be made easy with a 4a figured maple neck   This one is inspired by the Charvels of yore, but will have more of the modern features - 22 fretter, 2 1/4 heel, compound radius, etc.  I did spec if w/brass side markers as a little nod to the past...