Comparing EL34's to 6L6's

[Zipper Neck]

Hey guys. I have a Genz Benz El Diablo 100 head and I love it. It can get some awesome high and low gain tones. I was reading through the manual and it said that it's ready for 6L6 tubes without having to rebias. I was thinking of switching to these tubes at some point. How do they sound compared to the EL34's that I have? Which amps use them? How do they sound heavy? How do they sound clean?

[Jeff R]

6L6s to my ear tend to have more pronounced highs and lows than EL34s, which are more complex mid-range-wise.

6L6s are the tubes you find in mid to high wattage Fenders (Vibroluxes, Supers, Pros, Twins) and a lot of Boogies over the years. Even in the Boogies where you can mix power tube types, the guys in R&D have told me they design with 6L6s in mind first and foremost.

6L6s are great for big bold clean sounds, an attacking bluesygrit sound and a slicing distorted tone.

They are my personal preference. My Randall MTS will take either 6L6s or EL34s and I run the 6L6s with no pressing desire to experiment.

[Zipper Neck]

How is the gain structure on 6L6's? My amp's gain is a little square-wave sounding. It doesn't sound bad, but I would like a fairly high gain that sounds a little smoother.

[Jeff R]

You definitely need to play around with a pair of 6L6s then, IMHO. I dunno about that square-wave or gain structure stuff, but I can say EL34s get harsh to my ears quickly. 6L6s are smoother to me.

[Zipper Neck]

Which amps specifically have 6L6's? Perhaps a music store in my are might have an amp I can play around with.

[ZR]

I like 6L6's a lot. They have much better cleans and the distortions have that ballsy low end and also a high end definition that chimes through. EL-34's can rock too, obviously, but it's just what I prefer (right now!). Some of the Marshall sounds you hear and think are EL-34 sounds might just be 6550 power tubes like Dave Meniketti of Y&T (and others) used back in the day. I believe those would sound more like 6L6's than EL34's. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Soldanos, PV EVH, JSX etc. Mesa Rectifiers, Zinky's, etc. used 5881's and 6L6's.

[Nuclear Wessel]

Cool! I have almost the same amp! Just got my El Diablo 60 a little over a month ago. Did a couple of gigs with it. It's my first EL34 amp. Before that, it was a rack rig with a Marshall 20/20, which has EL84's and before that, a rig with a Mesa Boogie 50/50 which has 6L6's, and before that (we're talking the mid 80's to 1992 or so here) a Dean Markley tube combo with 6L6's.

The 6L6 amps I've owned had terrible problems cutting through a mix. I could turn up pretty loud, and soon as all the other guys started playing, the guitar disappeared. But since it was pretty loud, it was just adding a bunch of mud to the mix, and made everything harder to hear. I was using a decent tube preamp with the 50/50, too.

I agree with JeffR, a 6L6 amp is great for clean sounds. The classic Fender amps with their spanky clean sounds have 6L6's. With the right amp, if you push a 6L6 power amp, you'll get blues overdrive, but not Marshally crunch.

I was using the wrong amps all those years because I was really looking for a Marshally crunch and singing lead tone. For that you need the extra mids and edgy tone that EL34's or EL84's give you. When I tried getting that tone from my rig with the Mesa Boogie 50/50, it just didn't work. When I switched to the Marshall 20/20, I got a more focused tone that cut through a mix better without adding a lot of mush to the mix.

There are high gain amps designed with 6L6's, and some players like that sound (tin foil high end, scooped mids, and deep bass) but for me, a more focused tone from an EL34 or EL84 amp works better.

Ideally, I'd love to have a multi-amp rig like Eric Johnson, with an EL34 equipped amp for singing leads and chunky rhythm, and a 6L6 equipped amp for clean and blues overdrive tones. One of the things that I thought was cool about the El Diablo too was the ability to run either EL34's or 6L6's. In the studio I'd love to record overdriven parts with EL34's and switch to 6L6's to record clean parts, but I probably won't do it because I'd be too lazy to rebias the amp every time I switched!

Some high gain amps that have 6L6's would be older Mesa Boogies, Yamaha TS-series, and lots of Peavey amps including the 5150/6505.

[Jeff R]

You can dial midrange into or dial off ultra highs on a 6L6 amp and make it more pronounced in a mix/band context. But try to dial mids out of an EL34 based amp should you feel you need to - sure you can do it with some amps, but I always ended up with something somewhat lackluster because the mids are the pronounced magic on EL34s.

[halide]

did anyone see the new genz-benz amp? it's a 30 watt "class a" deal, iirc.

[unclefred]

Here is an article that really puts it in perspective. EL 84/34 is the sound of british rock.

Bad Attitude Article

[Nuclear Wessel]

You can dial midrange into or dial off ultra highs on a 6L6 amp and make it more pronounced in a mix/band context.

Yeah, I did resort to that when I had the 50/50, by adding some mid EQ in my Rocktron Replifex after the preamp, which would simulate where a power amp would add it. That worked OK, and I'd recommend it to anyone using a 6L6 power amp. I periodically see a thread titled "Why does my guitar disappear when the band starts playing?" or "My guitar is buried in the mix" on this forum and others, and I think this is often the reason.

You are right, I don't imagine it's that easy to get the spank of a clean Fender Twin with an EL34 amp. Sometimes I wish I'd kept my 50/50 because it'd make it more convenient to record clean tones with my current recording setup.

It's a matter of what sound you're after, and this is one reason a lot of players who are obsessed with perfect tone own multiple amps (besides the fact they're only convinced they've found the perfect tone for a few weeks before they decide they need another piece of gear to get there!) .

[Jeff R]

Multiple amps for multiple tones are definitely the way to go, and I've done that in the past when I was in my tone purist (aka snob) days LOL. But I don't gig anymore and rarely leave the house with an amp, so one amp is sufficient. So a versatile 6L6-based amp (that can take EL34s if needed) is perfect for my needs.

[Guest JackButler]

Soldanos, PV EVH, JSX etc. Mesa Rectifiers, Zinky's, etc. used 5881's and 6L6's.

Any tonal differences in hi-gain amps using 6l6's and 5881's?

[sonja]

I own a VHT Two/Ninety/Two for some time now and it´s like someone took the blanket from the cabinet. More punch, more presence, more details. And this has KT88 tubes. I don´t regret the switch from my previous 6L6GC power amp (Engl).

[kurtsstuff]

I own a VHT Two/Ninety/Two for some time now and it´s like someone took the blanket from the cabinet. More punch, more presence, more details. And this has KT88 tubes. I don´t regret the switch from my previous  6L6GC power amp (Engl).

A KT88 is a 6550 which is like a big badd ass 6L6 but has to be really loud to get the goodies.....I'm a strong proponent of the 6L6 variety's....

[Guest Mike Lee]

A 6550 is like a 6L6 on steroids. Big and clean, with plenty of highs even when overdriven. A KT66 is also like a 6L6, but somewhat smoother.

But a KT88 is simply huge sounding. Current KT88's are often based on 6550's, but a real KT88 is quite a bit more powerful - around 200 watts from 4 KT88's in an old Marshall Major PA amp.

[jettster]

I like certian things about each of them. Guess that's why I have a few different ones.

Orange Rocker 30 - EL-34

Budda superdrive 18 - EL-84 my favorite!

Yamaha T50 6L6

I think it all comes down to personal preference when your talking about tone.

The Orange never has a problem cutting through the mix with other guitarist, very thick mid tone with a great clean.

I haven't had the Budda to a ton of jams but, the few times it has been, there were no problems cutting through. Very thick but, also very smooth sounding. Great clean channel here too.

The Yamaha is the easiest to get a good tone when recording, although it always seems kind of bright and thin in the room?? Decent clean but, my least favorite among these amps. Live, it seems to cut through well but, it does seem to struggle a little when you add other guitarists to the mix.

[Zipper Neck]

I can see what you guys mean about 6L6 tubed amps getting lost in the mix. I have a friend with a Boogie Singe Rectifier and that happens a little. I just like the smooth texture 6L6's seem to have when you apply a little high gain.

[MCChris]

I can see what you guys mean about 6L6 tubed amps getting lost in the mix. I have a friend with a Boogie Singe Rectifier and that happens a little. I just like the smooth texture 6L6's seem to have when you apply a little high gain.

Yeah, nothing like the roaring midrange of an EL34 amp in a rock context. For years I used a Marshall Artist 3203 with EL34s in the power amp, and then I switched to a Soldano HR50 with 5881s. To a man, all my guitar playing buddies told me to switch back to the Marshall because they couldn't hear me as well at shows.

[edgar_allan_poe]

Yeah, nothing like the roaring midrange of an EL34 amp in a rock context. For years I used a Marshall Artist 3203 with EL34s in the power amp, and then I switched to a Soldano HR50 with 5881s. To a man, all my guitar playing buddies told me to switch back to the Marshall because they couldn't hear me as well at shows

I couldn't agree more. I have two amps, both are Fargen Bordeauxs. One is EL34 based and the other is 6L6 based. The EL34 amp is what I use in my band. It is easier to overdrive because the EL34 doesn't have the headroom that a 6L6 tube has. It also has a more pronounced midrange which gets it to cut through a mix in a live situation. My 6L6 amp, gets lost in the mix sometimes when playing live.

That being said...

The 6L6 is hands down the better sounding amp. When I record, it is the only amp I use.

[MCChris]

The 6L6 is hands down the better sounding amp. When I record, it is the only amp I use.

Yeah, the Soldano destroyed the Marshall in the studio.

[Jeff R]

Hey, Zipper Neck, tell your boy with the Single Rectifier to knock the gain back to about 1 or 2 o'clock, put the midrange at at least high noon and don't be scare to push the master volume (aka make the power tubes work a little harder).

The big problem I hear all the time with Rectifier users live is they run waaaay too much gain and scoop the mids too much, then they have to crank the volume to be heard, and then all the audience hears is a deathguit that pushes resemblance to a hot skillet full of bumblebees.

Big no-no for using a Recto in a band context. Just because it sounds cool playing alone in your bedroom doesn't mean it's gonna sound great in a room fighting it out with drums, a bass and - God forbid - another guitar player.

[Abaco]

I used to be a Mesa 6L6 guy. Had trouble cutting throught the mix. Distortion was harsh sounding to me. Switched to a really good Marshall clone with EL-34s and haven't looked back. My first amp was a Mesa Maverick with EL-84s and it really sounded sweet for blues or jazz stuff. I miss that amp.

Somebody mentioned Meniketti above. You know, he mostly plays a Mesa amp with 6L6s now. But, he turns the "mid" knob all the way up. I play a lot of Y&T stuff but use a Modern Vintage amp. It works great.

[ZR]

Yeah, I knew that about Meniketti. I guess the 6L6's are a little like the 6550 he use to use in his Marshalls.

When we 1st started playing in a band in high school nearly all the songs we knew were Y&T numbers! His signature is on my pickguard of my 1st electic guitar - cheap black LP copy. He was very insprational to me for his melodic solo work. Do you know if Joey Alves had problems with drugs/alcohol? (thread hijack).

[Ethan]

I put EL34s in my Dual Rectifier and wow, what a difference! Very nice sound.