Attention Kix fans!

[MCChris]

Only 12.4 lbs.! lol

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/55U-4350.htm

[tommy p]

I want that just for the Kix nostalgia. Donnie ruled! I wish they could put the past behind them and get him back for some of the reunion shows, if only for a song or two.

[BCR Greg]

The problem lies squarely with Donnie.

He's a complete dick, and always was. He treated everyone else like shit.

How do I know this? I played a ton of shows with them and have been doing the repairwork for Ronnie and Brian for years. Donnie wrote the majority of the basics for the tunes but never gave anyone else credit for their contributions. Screw him.

Just for fun, some KIX guitars on the bench.....

Brian's warhorse Tele...

Ronnie's favorite black Custom....

It's "almost broke in" he says.

Serial hanging with Brian backstage...

Ronnie joins Grumpy Old Men for a tune.....

[Ethan]

joe bardens in that tele? those guitars have been around the block for sure! blow my fuse!

[tommy p]

The problem lies squarely with Donnie.

He's a complete dick, and always was. He treated everyone else like shit.

How do I know this? I played a ton of shows with them and have been doing the repairwork for Ronnie and Brian for years. Donnie wrote the majority of the basics for the tunes but never gave anyone else credit for their contributions. Screw him.

Just for fun, some KIX guitars on the bench.....

Brian's warhorse Tele...

Ronnie's favorite black Custom....

It's "almost broke in" he says.

Serial hanging with Brian backstage...

Ronnie joins Grumpy Old Men for a tune.....

Thanks for those pics! I just saw those guitars up close and personal at Jaxx when they played there.

As for Donnie, I've spoken to Steve about him and it's really sad that he was that big a control freak. He said when they first decided to try the reunion gigs way back when, Donnie wanted to put all the money into the stage show and the rest of them wanted to do a minimal stage show and pocket some coin. Understandable, given that none of them are exactly rollin' in it. We all know how that turned out. The other thing was that the rest of them couldn't get their songs on albums because Donnie outwrote them about 10 to 1. If Donnie did take a song of theirs and polish it, he then claimed to have changed it so substantially that he had written it. Same with taking parts that they came up with and using them in his songs. Unfortunately, none of us were there so we only get one side of the story. I'd be interested to hear if you actually had any bad experiences with Donnie yourself.

Still, I remember seeing Kix with Donnie and his vocals, gear, and stage moves were all a big part of some good memories for me and a LOT of other Kix fans. I'd like to see them all get over their bad blood after all these years.

[powerage]

Never saw Kix in an arena but caught them in a Dallas club in the mid/late 80's and they were on fire! One of my favorite shows. Donnie and the band were so cool to watch. Couldn't believe my eyes when they came walking in the club carrying their guitars like a local band. The guys were all very cool as well.

Love those guitar shots. Ronnie made a great album after Kix called the Slimmer Twins. Pick it up if you like Stones influenced classic rock.

[BCR Greg]

Tommy, I WAS there when this was going on, and Donnie was impossible. I saw him pull bullshit moves that would have gotten him killed if he was in my band. The other guys just gave up on trying to get their opinions considered, and that eventually lead to the band falling apart. I would love to see him put it behind him, but he won't.

HIS loss.

The bottom line is that KIX is still one of the best damn rock bands ever, and every show is done like it's the most important show ever.

[lockjawnight]

it all KIX as long as Steve has his favorite mic stand you mean?

I know Steve a little as well. KIX was good band, but I really thought the weakness at the time was that they really didn't do anything that set them apart overall. There were other places to get the same basic thing. The show rocked, and they were fun to watch but all this was going on at a time when coast to coast there were a ton of good bands. Steve's voice was a little grating and I thought the lyrics were a bit weak (Not Black "n Blue/ Great White weak but a little weak).

Still it was good times, and no band is devoid of weaknesses.

[tommy p]

The bottom line is that KIX is still one of the best damn rock bands ever, and every show is done like it's the most important show ever.

+1 on that!!! When Funny Money first started, they played in a large club in my area to about 25 people and you would have thought it was 25,000. Kix is exactly the same way, although they pretty much pack any of the places they play these reunion shows.

[lockjawnight]

I want that just for the Kix nostalgia. Donnie ruled! I wish they could put the past behind them and get him back for some of the reunion shows, if only for a song or two.

Well look, Donnie was great (and difficult too) but in the end he probably just got tired of sitting in the control room and having to overdub every "s" on the album. If you guys are real insiders then you know exactly what I'm talking about and that I'm telling the truth.

Now, I'm not slamming KIX but to me the bottom line is this: they were a great band, and local Mid-Atlantic legend but they wilted on the big stage. They just weren't unique enough. They were never going to be huge.

[serial]

I don't know-I kinda thought Steve's lithp was unique. "Kix" and "Cool Kids" were an integral part of my high school soundtrack. That Tele of Brian's has possibly THE best live tone I've heard (second only to Dean DeLeo). Awesome. And these guys call on Greg regularly to get stuff done. I have a cool shot somewhere of Greg onstage with Brian and Rhino Bucket.

[lockjawnight]

I don't know-I kinda thought Steve's lithp was unique. "Kix" and "Cool Kids" were an integral part of my high school soundtrack. That Tele of Brian's has possibly THE best live tone I've heard (second only to Dean DeLeo). Awesome. And these guys call on Greg regularly to get stuff done. I have a cool shot somewhere of Greg onstage with Brian and Rhino Bucket.

I thought the music was great, it was the issues that held them back I think. It needed "something" and in the time they had it couldn't be found. I DO however understand WHY people loved them and WHY they deservedly receive a lot of loyalty, and it was because they earned it from the audience and from the fans.

I would never try to take that away from them at all.

[powerage]

I want that just for the Kix nostalgia. Donnie ruled! I wish they could put the past behind them and get him back for some of the reunion shows, if only for a song or two.

Well look, Donnie was great (and difficult too) but in the end he probably just got tired of sitting in the control room and having to overdub every "s" on the album. If you guys are real insiders then you know exactly what I'm talking about and that I'm telling the truth.

Now, I'm not slamming KIX but to me the bottom line is this: they were a great band, and local Mid-Atlantic legend but they wilted on the big stage. They just weren't unique enough. They were never going to be huge.

We all have our opinions obviously but I saw a lot of "huge" 80's bands and Kix was every bit as unique as the other bands and put on a much better show. Ratt, Poison, Def Leppard, Quiet Riot, etc. paled in comparison to Kix live. I don't think those bands had better songs either. Kix didn't quite fit the part in the image driven MTV era like the other hair bands I guess because I can't think of any other reason why they didn't make it. Never met anyone who saw them live who didn't love them but the songs didn't translate on record to mass appeal.

[BCR Greg]

Well look, Donnie was great (and difficult too) but in the end he probably just got tired of sitting in the control room and having to overdub every "s" on the album. If you guys are real insiders then you know exactly what I'm talking about and that I'm telling the truth.

So Steve has a lisp. BIG FUCKING DEAL.

Would you please list and display any and all recordings that you have made so that we can evaluate your talent?

[Crwth145]

KIX... an awesome band... live in tokyo, '89

I thought I'd heard somewhere that "Poison" played a part in their slow success...

[BCR Greg]

Poison is from the town where I live. We saw them at KIX gigs all the time, taking notes. They copied a lot of KIX stuff and took it to Hollywood; the whole "drop down" thing where they all fell to their knees at the same time; Brett did the umbrella bit for a while, and CC and Bobby would later be seen running full tilt at each other and colliding which was a KIX bit that grew out of an onstage accident. Hell, we ALL copied them in the area, but Poison cloned KIX without the talent.

[lockjawnight]

Well look, Donnie was great (and difficult too) but in the end he probably just got tired of sitting in the control room and having to overdub every "s" on the album. If you guys are real insiders then you know exactly what I'm talking about and that I'm telling the truth.

So Steve has a lisp. BIG FUCKING DEAL.

Would you please list and display any and all recordings that you have made so that we can evaluate your talent?

Qualifiation checks? Would that make a criticism of Kix less accurate? This thread went to the gutter fairly quickly, and led by one of the leading "citizens". Ok, if thats the way you wanna go. Well, look on the bright side, If Paul Stanley ever dies Steve will finally have an opening he's qualified for. BTW, I didn't say ANYTHING about Steve and his special "skill", I only commented that Donnie had to cover for him (and implied that it was a frustration among others). Before you start asking me how I'm qualified to have an opinion about Kix you need to CHECK YOURSELF. It doesn't matter where you were or what band you were in. They didn't make it big for good reasons.

And, since you didn't point out that I was wrong about any point I made ( I'm sounding pretty qualified based on that) and decided instead to attack the messenger I would say this...I'm surprised anyone would make a BIG FUCKIN' DEAL about criticism of Kix because outside of Baltimore no one EVER made a BIG FUCKIN' DEAL out of Kix (including Atlantic Records who too slowly for everyone involved realized they shouldn't throw good money after bad). Atlantic agrees with me BTW, just not soon enough.

Greg, I am very surprised from all of your previous posts that it is you of all people who have reacted this way to my post but I'll amuse you with the answer to your question that goes like this:

I'm as qualified to assess the qualities of of a now-defunct for approaching two decades never close to breaking big "legendary" Baltimore rock band as you are to assess the quality of Jol's guitars. I wasn't a part of the Baltimore rock scene of the time (I just saw/heard the product of it), and that's pretty much where you are with Hamer. I mean, unless you've been designing/building/founding/running/distributing some well-known brand of guitar with sales in the tens of millions of dollars and with a well-known and earned reputation of quality that is unbeknownst to me (always possible)for the last 35 years. Let me know, I'll check the Blue Book for your brand.

But an argument about Kix? Seriously? A qualification check? I really thought you were classier than that Greg. So, Why such a BIG FUCKIN' DEAL? And Don't get pissed, you earned this. I'm not looking for a fight, but I'm not going going to roll over for chicken shit like that either.

My apologies to all others on this forum. I've tried to make sure I was a good forum member, and have had good experiences with everyone up to this point. In this case, well..I don't understand what the problem was either.

[DaveL]

I'm surprised anyone would make a BIG FUCKIN' DEAL about criticism of Kix because outside of Baltimore no one EVER made a BIG FUCKIN' DEAL out of Kix (including Atlantic Records who too slowly for everyone involved realized they shouldn't throw good money after bad). Atlantic agrees with me BTW, just not soon enough.

Wait a minute... Atlantic agrees with you? The band could have been easily whacked

by Atlantic at an earlier point... How do they get to FIVE albums (plus the live one) if

WEA on some level, didn't see something in the band?

[BCR Greg]

Okay, I need to apologize for my outburst.

I get bent when a friend of mine is criticized for a physical deformity, and found it downright rude to say that his inability to speak as well as everyone else was the downfall of his band. As impolite as the accusation was, I did not have to resort to such an outburst.

I apologize to the community at large. That was stupid on my part.

I DO still take umbrage at a phantom person with no personal history displayed being so petulant. Google me and you and you can find out pretty much anything about me. Same with Steve Whiteman. But an anonymous person that claims to have "been designing/building/founding/running/distributing some well-known brand of guitar with sales in the tens of millions of dollars and with a well-known and earned reputation of quality that is unbeknownst to me" but offers no more than that is STILL an anonymous person. I could claim to have been flying rockets around the Indian Peninsula for 35 years, but my revealed identity would prove that wrong, and my a liar.

Everyone is allowed an opinion, but criticism requires credentials.

In my opinion, at least. Feel free to rebut.

[lockjawnight]

Okay, I need to apologize for my outburst.

I get bent when a friend of mine is criticized for a physical deformity, and found it downright rude to say that his inability to speak as well as everyone else was the downfall of his band. As impolite as the accusation was, I did not have to resort to such an outburst.

I apologize to the community at large. That was stupid on my part.

I DO still take umbrage at a phantom person with no personal history displayed being so petulant. Google me and you and you can find out pretty much anything about me. Same with Steve Whiteman. But an anonymous person that claims to have "been designing/building/founding/running/distributing some well-known brand of guitar with sales in the tens of millions of dollars and with a well-known and earned reputation of quality that is unbeknownst to me" but offers no more than that is STILL an anonymous person. I could claim to have been flying rockets around the Indian Peninsula for 35 years, but my revealed identity would prove that wrong, and my a liar.

Everyone is allowed an opinion, but criticism requires credentials.

In my opinion, at least. Feel free to rebut.

I'm didn't suggest Steve's problem was the downfall of the band. Read my post. I suggested it was part of (among other things) Donnie's continually deepening frustration. That's all. You're more sensitive about it than Steve is. As far as "phantom person" you don't need any to be in the inner circle to see what the problems that held them back were. Hell, I am qualified as anyone. History bears out that they didn't overcome the obstacles. Now that sums it up for my critique of Kix.

But Greg you need to READ my posts. Actually stop and READ them. Just read the words and don't assign emotion to them. Since qualifications were demanded in order to have an opinion on Kix I then wondered aloud just what yours are to be having and opinion on guitars? How are you qualified enough? Then you'll find out that the "anonymous guitar builder" I refer to would need to be YOU. I'm wondering how you are qualified to criticize Leo, Paul, Jol, etc. since as far as I know...you haven't accomplished what they did. I don't need Google for that. And I'm not calling you out on this other than as a response to your "request for information"That sums up a clarification on "qualifications".

Greg, I wasn't being petulant about Kix. Any petulance was in response to your post. I know Steve a (just a)little based on behind the scenes action surrounding the FM gigs. My only criticism of Steve as a working musician is that he expects those that work with him to make FM their primary alleginace when Steve is arbitrary about scheduling gigs, giving timely notice of work, etc. and for that reason he is hard on the musicinas he plays with. That's the sum total I have to say about Steve.

Now I think alot of you personally forum-wise both intellectually and professionally. I was absolutely stunned when you reacted. I was pissed off and it shows in my post. I understand standing up for a friend with a problem, but damn dude...there was no malice. All in all, it appears more that this is a typical email/forum misunderstanding based on trying to read "intent" in someone else words. Peace dude, chill a little. I'm not your enemy. Thanks for the followup and I got a little heated too. I was enjoying the hell out of your "back in the days" part of the thread before it turned into "this".

As for DaveL I don't want to do a seperate post so...I'm saying that Atlantic sank more money into Kix than they ever made back. Atlantic recognized (IMHO about 3 years too late for Atlantic) that they needed to sever ties. It isn't that people didn't try to give them time to get over the top, but more that it just wasn't going to happen no matter how much money was spent. Atlantic "agrees" or "agreed" with "me" in so much as they came to the same conclusion. That's all. Hey, Kix fans are/were dedicated no doubt. There just weren't enough of them IMHO.

I consider this done all around, and hopefully no hard feelings. At this point I don't have any anyway. Just a forum discussion that went a little south. Nothing in this post is meant as an attack, just a clarification/resoponse. I overreacted to Greg getting personal earlier and responded back in kind.

For that, I apologize to all.

[BCR Greg]

A cyber handshake extended.....

[cmatthes]

Thanks for working all that out - looks like there's been some resolution and everybody involved is cool now, right?

Let's try to remember that the typed medium we use here isn't (and likely never will be) a satisfactory replacement for face-to-face or true verbal interaction.

Thanks again!

As a reminder, there is an old LP bass available at Elderly.

[DaveL]

As for DaveL I don't want to do a seperate post so...I'm saying that Atlantic sank more money into Kix than they ever made back. Atlantic recognized (IMHO about 3 years too late for Atlantic) that they needed to sever ties. It isn't that people didn't try to give them time to get over the top, but more that it just wasn't going to happen no matter how much money was spent. Atlantic "agrees" or "agreed" with "me" in so much as they came to the same conclusion. That's all. Hey, Kix fans are/were dedicated no doubt. There just weren't enough of them IMHO.

It's cool... I don't disagree with the gist of what your saying (ie: it simply wasn't meant

to be) but I definitely appreciated how this band scratched and clawed as far as they

could. that's all...

[serial]

...and she Thhrew up again!

[tommy p]

Never saw Kix in an arena but caught them in a Dallas club in the mid/late 80's and they were on fire! One of my favorite shows. Donnie and the band were so cool to watch. Couldn't believe my eyes when they came walking in the club carrying their guitars like a local band. The guys were all very cool as well.

Love those guitar shots. Ronnie made a great album after Kix called the Slimmer Twins. Pick it up if you like Stones influenced classic rock.

1. powerage is a cool name!

2. I've never seen a Kix show where they weren't on fire. I'll bet there are many here who would second me on that.

3. +1 on the Slimmer Twins.