HA!!! So true!!!

[Jorge]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...34747%26fvi%3D1

[Disturber]

priceless

[bobbymack]

Yeah except there's a good bit of whiny sour grapes behind the scenes there, because they can't afford a good Gibby anymore...

If you offered any of those guys the opportunity to trade their Samick AV7 or Epi w/ EMGs or whatever for a real Les Paul, how many do you think would turn it down?

Yeah, I'm biased but so are those guys...

[MrGuitarguy]

That is funny! lol! I agree that all these prices are getting out of hand!

I will have to side with Bobbymack on the Epi's and Samicks though. I've repaired a countless amount of those things and never seen one that I would consider a great guitar, ever. And I've swapped more electronics on those damn guitars for people than I ever care to think about! But then again, you don't get used to driving a ferrari and then jump back in a ford escort and not notice a difference.

But let's face it, if you have a cheap guitar or an expensive guitar you still have the same 12 notes as everybody else. The age and quality of your guitar aren't going to affect how you play them. It's all inside of you.

[hamerican gigolo]

"I LOVE IT."

[zorrow]

-- but now I wonder if he'll have to pay a fraction of that price for listing the item.

[SirDouglas]

haha would be even more funny if some dumb phuk bid on it....

Sir Douglas

Randy

[Submariner85]

That is funny. I wouldn't throw one away if someone gave me one but I like my Standard better than I liked my LP.

[ram16821]

Hi guys -- I was emailed the link the HFC site and saw the post. To answer questions above...

1) no sour grapes. I gig with an Epi LPC w/ EMGs because I had a Gibson stolen from me at a show. However I have a Gibson LPC (for gigs, sometimes), a Gib LPStudio and a Gibson LP Supreme (stays at home always).

2) the crux of my rant was "historic reissues" which are "aged" that people want $8k for. You only get the historic tone from an historic instrument. I threw in the $600/$3k conundrum for good measure...

3) Ebay charged me $4,200 for posting that ad. My lawyer is going round and round with them as I write this.

Just kidding -- the ad insertion cost was $15 bucks, but we'll worth it!

Roger

[gatorbyte007]

LOL> HA is that some funny shit!!!

[Matt Mattson]

Ram16821:

That was so good I took the liberty of posting on the Ovation Fan Club website a few days ago. The best part (to me) was some of the emails others sent.

I especially (would have) liked:

I am Ayoob Naboob, the former Minister of Finance for King Tue Tuetwain of Niger. I would like to enter into a business agreement with you in which we agree to deposit 25 million U.S. dollars in the account of your choosing and certain interest and finance agreements in exchange for your good faith paid shipment of said guitar to . . . . . .

to end it all.

Anyway -- good job!

Matt Mattson

http://www.treasuresites.com/Z.htm

[hardheartedbill]

biting social commentary LOL

[biffrythm]

I just pray my wife never reads that.

[ram16821]

Biffrythm -- I got pinned on that very thing. My wife knows how much both the Gib and the Epi cost, so one day she asks the question: what's the difference? Why is one five times more than the other?

I gave her the usual arguments ---

1) the Gib has better wood -- she said "so what?" (she also said the Epi with EMG's sounded better, and I have to agree with her)

2) the Gib is made in the US -- she said "oh, so we're paying for expensive American labor, and THAT makes it better?"

3) the Gib is an investment -- she promptly called me on that one, and did some research on Ebay. Turns out, unless it's a very rare, very stock, very good condition guitar, the Gib LP isn't nearly as good of an investment, than say safe T-bills or municipal bonds.

4) Good old American craftmanship -- We both examined the Gib and Epi side by side, and found two things: the Epi tuner screw holes were a bit off, making the tulips turn out slightly on one side, and the Gib stop bar mount on the low side wasn't completed seat in the body (something I'd never noticed before -- had to take off the strings to fix that.)

I conceded the point, hoping that she won't make me sell anything...

Roger

[biffrythm]

Roger,

I have an Edwards LP standard. I don't know if you've heard of them, but they are made by ESP for the Japanese market. Well it plays like a dream, comes stock with duncan 59 and jb pickups. And I put Spertzel locking tuners on. Now it gets played the most of all my guitars, and I have a historic 58 lp flametop.

Besides, ideas and ability usually makes more difference than gear.

But I would deny all of this to my wife.

Thanks,

Kelly

[kurtsstuff]

That is way too frickin funny and sooooo....soooo true!!!! Good on ya!!!

[ram16821]

Thanks Kurt --

BTW, here's case-in-point --

http://cgi.ebay.com/GIBSON-LES-PAUL-CUSTOM...1QQcmdZViewItem

If the link doesn't work, it's item no. 7347690522

...and yes, he's actually asking $175,000 for this guitar, but the tinfoil shielding is FOH FREE!!

Roger

[wgarces]

2) the crux of my rant was "historic reissues" which are "aged" that people want $8k for. You only get the historic tone from an historic instrument. I threw in the $600/$3k conundrum for good measure...

A while ago when I lived in L.A. I visited a music shop called Voltage guitars. While there, I noticed a LP Junior and though I'm not a huge fan of LP Juniors, I fell in love with this one. It had such a great FEEL to it. I noticed it had the word "Second" stamped in the headstock. The owner of the store told me it was a '77 and the reason the guitar had such a great feel was because it's previous owner played the heck out of it! Surely, it had the feeling of a guitar that was well loved, and played. The best part.....the store was asking $700 for this guitar! I walked out without putting any money down on the guitar, like I said, I wasn't big fan of these guitars, but after a couple of days went by, I still couldn't get this guitar out of my head. So I went back a week later, and it was gone. That was the one that got away. I would've gladly paid triple for that guitar. To me that was a historic guitar. I've picked up many $3000+ Historic re-issue guitars and not one had the feel that $700 guitar had. So now I know......one man's garbage is another man's gold.

[hardheartedbill]

so I guess we can expect a thread on how USA Hamers are a rippoff and the Koreans are just as good w/ pickup and hardware swap?

[wgarces]

so I guess we can expect a thread on how USA Hamers are a rippoff and the Koreans are just as good w/ pickup and hardware swap?

In my experiences, an import guitar has never attained the same "feel" as a U.S. one no matter how old or how much it gets played. To do a comparision, try playing each guitar un-amplified. That's what does it for me. U.S. ones have more "character". You cannot compare a U.S. Hamer to a Korean one. No way. I'm not knocking imports. Hamer has some of the nicer imports you can get and for the money you're getting a good deal. The early Ibanez Destroyers and V's are nice guitars, too. I'd buy one before a Gibson Historic guitar. But if I ever went that route, I'd get a Hamer. They're a little less expensive and their build quality is far superior to anything Gibson's "custom shop" puts out.

[BCR Greg]

Roger,

You are welcome here ANYTIME.

[Turdus]

...... I'd get a Hamer. They're a little less expensive and their build quality is far superior to anything  Gibson's "custom shop" puts out.

OK.... I've gone from Hamers to Gibson Custom shop instruments, and am quite pleased with the results. I believe another guy here, who was all over Hamers a few years ago, now has a Custom Shop LP Custom, and is pleased as well.

I've got to believe that with all the Gibson Custom Shop guitars that are out there, at least a few are decent, LOL.

[bobbymack]

their build quality is far superior to anything  Gibson's "custom shop" puts out.

Prone to a little generalizing are we, or is that an absolute fact?

For the bazillionth time on this board, yes Hamer is far more consistent and has better quality control than Gibson. Hamer makes first rate guitars.

But if you buy Gibsons wisely, you can play outstanding instruments with very little financial downside. Alot of the instruments that come out of the Gibson Custom Shop are superb instruments, believe it or not. That is where their better luthiers work. Do they let some turds out the door? Sure, but it's not as though Hamer hasn't (shall we talk Hameritis, pizza dough fingerprints under the finish, binding issues?), and if Hamer produced anywhere near the number of guitars that Gibson or Fender does, they would have plenty more stools out in the market.

About 5 years ago I owned 9 USA Hamers, and zero Gibsons. I now own 2 USA Hamers (T-51 with pizza dough thumbprints and masking tape fade, and a '96 Artist Custom) and 5 Gibsons, 4 of them either Historics or Custom Shop guitars. I do not have any regrets about this migration, nor do I feel I have overpaid in any way for inferior instruments

And, price the newer Hamer top shelf models vs Gibby Custom / Historics, there's not as much difference as people think...plus there's the whole Victory inlay debacle with the newer Hamers...

I guess having to listen to the Gibby bashing comes with the territory here, but to me it often comes across as resentful whining.

flame away, I know it's inevitable so I'll lay back and enjoy it

[ram16821]

Thanks Greg

In the final analysis, I think it's what makes you happy that counts (and what's cool at the time....)

I grew up in the 70's and loved Peter Frampton, Jimmy Page, Ace Frehley -- and had my little Les Paul copy from Montgomery Ward to jam with the radio. Was happy as a clam with that $75 guitar and an MXR distortion box.

Then I was in high school and college in the 80's and followed everything "King Edward" did, to a "T". I even built my own Strat copy, and mangled half-a-dozen "hockey stick" guitars trying to get his tone. It was all about speed, phrasing and impressing the girls back then. Everything seems to be simple chords and shouting now.

The big argument then was about "Kramer" -- if you didn't have one, you were a loser, and guys got all upset if you questioned that thinking. Can you believe that -- Kramer?? Gibson had a tough time then -- it was perceived as stodgy and out of date, and suffered financially.

Then there was the 90's and grunge -- and no one was allowed to have fun or not perform music of dire social import for 10 years. Thank God Ozzy's 'No More Tears" came out -- Zakk really put the balls back into guitar on that one. I still have it in my CD tray in the pool room.

In '99 I bought my first Gibson, just to finally quell my "headstock envy." That being satsfied, I been through others Gibsons, Fenders, a custom build and a Carvin (very high quality guitar that sells for $1600 -- US made in Fullerton CA).

Now I've noticed all the veteran players going back to what used to be the dual standard -- Gibson Les Paul or Fender Stratocaster. Kinda like Ginger or Mary Ann, huh.

Give a few years... we'll all be back to playing headless synthetic Steinbergers and hockey stick guitars.

[biffrythm]

When every one was playing Kramer's and Charvels, I was playing Les Paul juniors. And eveyone laughed at me. I was getting '58 and '59 jrs for $200 to $400 and Kramer and Charvel's were a grand.