Guitar horsetrading for profit!

[Michael_]

A few days ago I bought a USA Diablo with a maple fretboard on ebay for 345 shipped. I am pretty confident that this particular guitar is worth substantially more than that. I'm a college student, and I don't buy guitars often, but when I do, I always make sure that I'm getting the best deal possible. I have developed a knack for frequently checking ebay, here, and the gear page and finding good deals.

Sometimes though, the good deals are on guitars I don't need. I live in a dorm and there just isn't space for me to store a collection; plus I don't have a real job and I don't really have enough income to satisfy my expensive tonal tastes.

I see guitars all of the time that I think I could sell for more than I get them for. I understand that many guitars are worth more as parts than they are whole. What's to stop me from buying up all of the good deals I can and ebaying them for money? Could I make more by parting them out? Why haven't I thought of this before?

[atquinn]

Nothing's to stop you really. But remember, in order to make money selling stuff on eBay, you have to sell it for more than you bought it for just to break even (due to eBay and PayPal fees). So, you have to sell the Diablo for maybe $405 shipped just to break even. Also, if you buy stuff and then flip it on eBay (or here), the market is such that most potential bidders will know what you're doing (it's easy to see what you bought it for) and they might not be willing to play that. So unless, you get the deal of a century buying, your probably not going to be able to make a killing. And if you do get the deal of a century, it would probably make more sense to just keep the guitar.

-Austin

[blackfbiv]

I have developed a knack for frequently checking ebay...

That's an obsession my friend...

IMHO you should just keep a score like that.

Dion

[kizanski]

What's to stop me from buying up all of the good deals I can and ebaying them for money?

See paragraph 2: "I don't have a real job..."

[MCChris]

You also open yourself up to the world's losers, scumbags and scheisters, which eBay is a haven for.

[acb]

microEconomics101, its all about supply and demand bro. same as you, others are always looking for the best deal, not as an investment, but for a player. you get a taste by bottom hunting and think the formula is an easy one. guitars are not high on the liquidity scale, there is maintenance and opportunity/timing added into the equation. in general, appreciation takes time with an expanding supply. parts tend to be a crap shoot unless you have strong demand and run your own workbench. try finding satisfied buyers for your inventory a few times and you might discover it is not THAT easy. get stuck with one or two losses which eat the profit squeezed elsewhere and you'll scratch your head.

two rules seem to be a constant:

1. one man's pleasure is another man's pain

2. most of the time YOU get what YOU pay for, same as everybody else.

[hamersandstrats]

What cracks me up are sellers who use the same ID to buy and sell on eBay. I just saw a Les Paul being offered for like $4500, that the seller bought for half that.

Note to eBayers: always check the guys feedback and look at his recent auctions.

I have bought guitars on eBay-mostly Hamers of course because I can trust them, but I do most of my buying in person now. I do not really like selling on eBay, but you can get the best price for your stuff there, no doubt.

[straightblues]

Yes you can do this. I have been doing for the past 25 years. You just need to be careful on the buy. If you don't buy it right you will never do well.

Here is my most recent deal. I bought a Chandler Lectraslide guitar at Guitar Center. The guitar was setup horribly and had the wrong bridge on it. I bought it for $150. I had the right bridge at home from one of my hamer wraptails. I did a little setup work and got it playing great. I went home before I bought it and checked Ebay. These guitars were trading on Ebay between $600 and $700 so I raced back down and bought it. Guitar Center is a great place for doing this. They mark down none big name gear really low prices. The salesmen at Guitar Center actually laughed when I bought the guitar. They said they had it for a long time and nobody wanted it. Anyway, on week later I traded this Lectraslide for a Soild top Martin accoustic with a high end pickup in it. So for $150, I now have a Martin that is arguably worth $800 to $1,000. The guy with a Martin just bought a $2,500 Gibson accocstic and he really wanted to get rid of the Martin. So I got a GREAT DEAL.

I bought a 1964 Fender Deluxe about a year ago for $400. The cabinet was destroyed but the chasis was perfect and 100% original. I built a cabinet and now I have a GREAT amp for about $600. All the tone without the price. If I wanted to sell it, I could get at least $1,000.

I could go on all day with deals I have done. I have owned around 250 guitars and at least 50 amps. I allways buy them right and trade up. Go for it if you want just make sure you buy them right and make sure you included fees such as Ebay and Paypal fees into the equation.

[polara]

I think between shipping, Ebay fees, PayPal fees, and how people can get a quick look at whatcha paid and do so much comparison shopping, it's PROBABLY easier to make that money with a job. I do the same thing from time to time but it's more of an occasional thing for pocket change. I recently snagged a lovely B12S for $795 and wanted to keep it 'cos it's so cool. But the bassist in my band borrowed it, and now she's offered a thousand bucks for it, so I'm selling.

I got a Teisco Del Ray a few weeks back at Guitar Center for $39.95, and it came with a super-clean 60s Vox Phantom hard case that's worth probably one-fifty or two hundred. So there's another potential profit. And sometimes pawnshops and even flea markets have decent guitars that simply are badly in need of a setup, some cleaning, get the pots clean, maybe fix a solder joint. You can turn the occasional profit of twent, fifty, a hundred bucks there. And you get to play cool instruments as long as you want 'em around your house!

[SteveE9C6]

I do this all the time.... unfortunately, my motto seems to be "Buy high, Sell Low".

I can easily count the money I've not made by opening my empty wallet;)

[SteveB]

well, $345 shipped for a USA Diablo is pretty much in the range of what those go for, so I'm not sure you could flip it for much profit. Besides, if it didn't go for more than $345 the first time on the bay, what would make it go for more the second time? Sometimes you get lucky and stumble on something that other people have ignored either because of a bad ad or bad keywords, or a questionable seller, but usually ebay is pretty good indication of market value. It goes in waves, so you could maybe hold it a while and wait for a resurgence in Diablo prices, but I know the Diablos I've bought in the past have all been in that same price range.

Its possible to make money doing it, look at www.chrisguitars.com or www.jcguitars.com. However, usually you arn't going to be able to do straight flips. In any flipping business, your best bet is to buy below market products that need some work, add value by cleaning and repairing them, and then selling them at market. Personally, I think there is way too much effort involved in doing that for guitars with not so much return.

[blackfbiv]

I do this all the time.... unfortunately, my motto seems to be "Buy high, Sell Low".

I can easily count the money I've not made by opening my empty wallet;)

Lol..you pegged that to the wall... I can single-handedly turn ANY money maker into dirt buy simply buying into it.

Stocks, bonds, cars, guitars...u name it.

You guys want gold to drop a third invalue? Let me know I'll go buy some...give it a week and gold prices will tank. For sure... hahahaha

Dion

[MCChris]

You guys want gold to drop a third invalue? Let me know I'll go buy some...give it a week and gold prices will tank. For sure... hahahaha

I'll assume you ride a bike and heat your home with a wood-burning stove, cuz your pox-ish tendencies have had NO effect on gas prices.

[straightblues]

I'm not sure you could flip it for much profit. Besides, if it didn't go for more than $345 the first time on the bay, what would make it go for more the second time?

This is where the art and marketing comes in.

If you clean it up, make it play right, replace non-original parts. Tell a story, get a better description, find out what year it is, talk about famous players who have played that model. Advertise it as the correct model and year. I can't tell you how many time I have seen a Studio advertised as a Special. (Studios go for more as you know.) I love when I see missadvertised stuff. Also, maybe the seller has issues (no history or bad history; or doesn't want to ship or is charging too much for shipping or won't tell you what the shipping and "Handeling" cost will be until the close of the auction).

Here is a great example, last year I bought a Silvertone Aristrocrat (17 1/2 wide big Hollowbody electric from the mid 50's) that was advertised as a 1970's Electric Acoustic Silvertone. If you know about Silvertone, Kay or Harmony guitars they were made in the US until about '67 at which time they where made in Japan. The 50's ones were fairly high quality while the quality wained in the 60's. So by advertising as a 70's guitar, I am sure most people didn't even look at the ad. I paid $150 for it and turned around and sold it a month later for $650. I advertised that it was the same guitar played by Rick Holmstrom and Junior Watson two great West Coast Blues players. I also took great pictures and put 10 pictures on Ebay so people could see what they were getting. I also have a 100% positive feedback rating. I always charge a low flat shipping cost so buyers know exactely what they are going to get.

[Dasein]

If you flip on ebay, use two IDs...one for selling and another for buying. Also --always take new photos. And write new, well informed, good copy. Always independently research what you have purchased to ensure accuracy in your listings.

[atquinn]

well, $345 shipped for a USA Diablo is pretty much in the range of what those go for, so I'm not sure you could flip it for much profit. Besides, if it didn't go for more than $345 the first time on the bay, what would make it go for more the second time?

This particular guitar had a buy it now of $325. It had a maple fretboard, which is rare, so I'm guessing it would have gone higher than that if it had been listed as an auction. However, the fact that people like myself passed on it when we could have bought it (I saw the auction before a post was made about it here, but decided to exercise some self-restraint (for once )) suggests that it wouldn't necessarily sell for all that much more. Say you ended up auctioning it off for $500 + $25 shipping. You'd only clear

$525

-$15.75 (paypal fees)

-$5 (listing fees)

-$25 (shipping)

-~$25 (final auction value fees, a guesstimate)

=454.25

So, you'd make $110. A nice profit, but hardly enough to make me contemplate doing it as a side source of income.

-Austin

[blackfbiv]

You guys want gold to drop a third invalue? Let me know I'll go buy some...give it a week and gold prices will tank. For sure... hahahaha

I'll assume you ride a bike and heat your home with a wood-burning stove, cuz your pox-ish tendencies have had NO effect on gas prices.

Staples don't count apparently. Otherwise food would be free. (I do like my groceries!!!)

Fun stuff and investments though...look out...

Dion

[jerseydrew]

If you flip on ebay, use two IDs...one for selling and another for buying. Also --always take new photos. And write new, well informed, good copy. Always independently research what you have purchased to ensure accuracy in your listings.

Yup, what he said.

[Phantom Hawk]

Hmm I wasn't aware you could get 2 user names on Ebay.Its a great idea for reselling stuff. You can do that with the same info you got your first name with ?

[atquinn]

The 2 name thing is interesting, but anyone who cares can usually find out that you've bought a guitar on eBay and are now trying to resell it without too much effort. Example; I keep my eye out for Cali's that are being sold on eBay. So when one comes up, I put it in my watch list (even though I'm not really looking to buy or sell, I like to see what they're going for). If the same guitar was sold and then came back up for sale a couple week later, I'd notice and I imagine most people with an eye out for Cali's would too. Especially if the original auction mentioned the serial#.

-Austin

[Michael_]

So, if I buy neglected pieces and fix them up some, I will have more luck turning a profit. That makes sense. It's also true, however, that the quality of the listing and the pictures can make a large difference in the sale price. Sexy high res pictures and accurate, informative, well written descriptions, along with some basic nice HTML for emphasis and appearance, can make a difference in the price of a guitar.

Everyone is scared to buy a guitar when it has a single blurry cameraphone picture and one line of description, but the same guitar with 10 nice pictures and a detailed description will draw far more bidders willing to put more money into a 'sure thing'. It also helps that I have a 100% positive eBay feedback of 30-something.

I'm not trying to make a killing here, but if I could profit 100 dollars a month by buying, setting up, playing, and selling guitars, I would be happy. Making money doing something I love to do and learning alot while I'm at it, how bad can it be?

[Dasein]

Factor opportunity costs.

[kurtsstuff]

As you all know..I go through alot of gear but I never purchase with the intention of making money on it..I purchase gear I'm interested in trying and seeing if it's gonna find a place in the line up. I also turn alot of gear but rarely if ever for a profit...sometimes I break even...most times I don't but I look at it as a day at disneyland and if I'm in the red on something it don't matter cuz like disneyland...I had a good time

[Michael_]

Factor opportunity costs.

Could you elaborate on this a little more?

Also, can you guys put your collective minds together and think of guitars that might be worth more as parts than as their whole-guitar selves? I was thinking that some Teles and OFR Shredders would fall into this category but I don't really know.

[straightblues]

Factor opportunity costs.

Opportunity cost is the cost of other things you could be doing with your time instead of buying guitars. For example, if you could make $10 an hour working at a store and it takes you 20 hours to do the guitar and you only make $100, you have only made $5 per hour working on the guitar. Thus, you could have made twice as much by working at the store as opposed to spend time working on the guitar. This extra cost ($5 an hour in this case) is called the "opportunity cost."

Well I am a real estate consultant and I bill $200 per hour. So my opportunity cost is very high. But I love guitars and I love buying and selling them. Could I make more money elsewhere, yes, but I wouldn't have as much fun. I also enjoy having many guitars around. I can do this easily by buying and selling guitars. It is a game for me now. I started doing this on a regular basis when I was 13. I was playing Les Pauls, Explorers and 335 when I was still in my teens. So yes, it was worth it for me and a hell of a lot of fun.