1X12 Cabinet Experts: Is This The One I Want?

[velorush]

No idea about cabinets, but I've heard good remarks about these. Looking for a 1X12 that would serve a wide variety of situations.

https://reverb.com/item/85519353-bogner-112cp-closed-back-dual-ported-1x12-guitar-speaker-cabinet-2010s-black

This particular example is about $150 too high (plus shipping), but is this the model I'm looking for?  If not, what?

but is this the model I'm looking for? 

Edited November 9, 2024 by velorush

[HSB0531]

3 hours ago, django49 said:

Okay, since I mentioned  two relatively different cabinet types, here is a bit of illustration. In this case, it is a "Barefaced" style atop a "Forte 3D" with a matching headshell for the amp. The Barefaced is a bit smaller and lighter while getting more or less the same effect. I tend to like the Forte a bit more, but either one works well. Use them both together with that 200 watt head and it is going to stands up very well to a much bigger and less moveable stack. I have a few stories. 😉

FWIW, I sometimes use a single 1 x 10 Barefaced style cab for casual gigs and it never lets me down.

That's an interesting rear port.

[HSB0531]

On 11/12/2024 at 8:53 AM, velorush said:

I found one loaded with the Mesa Black Shadow (Celestion C90, according to Mesa) speaker - izat okay?  I thought these were engineered specifically for an EV12ML? 

Do people regularly swap other speakers sound like in the Thiele? I have a couple of spares around (a barely used Celestion Blue and a never used Warehouse ET of some sort).

An important thing to note is that most speakers are designed to be in tuned port enclosures, while some need to be in closed back sealed enclosures, and some work well in both types.

Most speaker cabinet design software will mention what type of enclosure is recommended for a particular speaker.

I looked up the Mesa 90 and tried to cross reference it with a Celestion model without any results.  Mesa doesn't give out any T/S specs so I can't "try it" in a cabinet simulation to see how well it works compared to an EVM-12L.

[Cboss]

Any comments on the evm 12L versus the 12s? Are they pretty similar, vastly different?

[HSB0531]

1 hour ago, Cboss said:

Any comments on the evm 12L versus the 12s? Are they pretty similar, vastly different?

Here's old info from Electro-Voice on both:

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/EVM-12S Series II EDS.pdf

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/EVM-12L Series II EDS.pdf

The 12S had a gradual bass rolloff starting at 200Hz. The 12L has a very flat response from 300Hz. down to 100Hz.  The Butterworth 4th order alignment tuning of the cabinet starts at 80Hz.

I believe the main differences were in the cone weight and shape only. Th shape of the 12S was curvilinear, and the 12L was more straight walled).

There's also differences in the upper mid and high frequency bands.

Both speakers were measured in the EV TL606 cabinet with an internal gross volume of 1.3 cubic ft.

Edited November 14, 2024 by HSB0531

[django49]

8 hours ago, HSB0531 said:

An important thing to note is that most speakers are designed to be in tuned port enclosures, while some need to be in closed back sealed enclosures, and some work well in both types.

Most speaker cabinet design software will mention what type of enclosure is recommended for a particular speaker.

I looked up the Mesa 90 and tried to cross reference it with a Celestion model without any results.  Mesa doesn't give out any T/S specs so I can't "try it" in a cabinet simulation to see how well it works compared to an EVM-12L.

I understand the Mesa 90 (C90) is made by Celestion as a proprietary Mesa speaker based at least loosely on the CL (Classic Lead) 80. Beefed up a bit in terms of power rating and (apparently) a bit heavier sound. I have used the CL80 in a "Dumble" style cabinet (semi open back with an oval cutout) and like it a lot.

[Jakeboy]

On 11/11/2024 at 7:55 PM, BoogieMKIIA said:

I always wanted to try a TRM cab, are they good?  They have pine and Baltic birch ply, lots of variations to choose from.

 

 

I had a nice TRM 2x12 and still rock a ported 1x12. I finished mine in oil and put a vintage piece of grill cloth from an old organ. Pine with a Baltic baffle. I have come to prefer all Baltic cabs. The TRM freaking vibrates like mad. So much so that I put a piece o& rubber cloth on it to keep a light head from vibrating off!! I have had beers vibrate right off!  That said, this beautiful pine cab sounds just wonderful.

[HSB0531]

On 11/14/2024 at 8:00 PM, django49 said:

I understand the Mesa 90 (C90) is made by Celestion as a proprietary Mesa speaker based at least loosely on the CL (Classic Lead) 80. Beefed up a bit in terms of power rating and (apparently) a bit heavier sound. I have used the CL80 in a "Dumble" style cabinet (semi open back with an oval cutout) and like it a lot.

I checked the Celestion website because I found no T/S info on the guitar range in my database.  They don't publish any unfortunately.  I was hoping to get a look at what it would do in simulations.

[HSB0531]

On 11/14/2024 at 8:30 PM, Jakeboy said:

I had a nice TRM 2x12 and still rock a ported 1x12. I finished mine in oil and put a vintage piece of grill cloth from an old organ. Pine with a Baltic baffle. I have come to prefer all Baltic cabs. The TRM freaking vibrates like mad. So much so that I put a piece o& rubber cloth on it to keep a light head from vibrating off!! I have had beers vibrate right off!  That said, this beautiful pine cab sounds just wonderful.

In the early days I was using north American 9-ply Birch plywood which wasn't too heavy and had a decent stiffness to it.  The second version of my cabinets I went with 13-ply 18mm (around 3/4") Baltic Birch B/B faced on 5 sides and 36mm (around 1-1/2") on the baffle.  Baltic birch is ultra stiff but very heavy.  The advantage was that no sound output was used to vibrate the walls of the cabinet and no bracing is required on a 1-1.5 cubic ft. 1x12" cabinet.  Baltic birch won't add coloration to the sound if well damped on 5 walls.  3M makes a very densely compressed 3/4" fiberglass sheet that is designed specifically for acoustic treatment, and is way more effective that R19 fiberglass.

The advantages of Pine are extreme light weight, easy to cut and shape, and less expensive, but, you loose a lot of sound output to cabinet vibration if it isn't well braced. And it probably adds some color to the sound....in a good way.

[django49]

FWIW, I think the addition of hardwood edging adds a degree of stiffness, without losing the tone of  the pine or adding a lot of weight. It obviously adds some extra time to glue up panels. In the future, I might forego biscuits and use either dominoes or dovetails. The latter obviously also adds some added labor. But I have built enough that there is little need to make more.....🤔

 

That said, if I use 1/2" BB, it also reduces weight......This assumes I am going to use tolex to cover the plywood.

[tbonesullivan]

I am an unabashed fan of Avatar Cabinets. I have three of their 2x12s, two "Traditional" and one "contemporary". They used to make a 1x12 Forte cabinet, but do not anymore. They do however make some really nice 1x12s even without the Forte, and you can order them without speakers so you can install your own, or one that they do not carry.

My only regret with them is that when I got the 12-6 bass cab that I didn't go for the Neo speaker, because it can only handle 250W. Looking back I'm never going to use anything with it that puts out over 250 watts so I Should have gotten it and shaved 7lbs off the weight.

[HSB0531]

1 hour ago, django49 said:

FWIW, I think the addition of hardwood edging adds a degree of stiffness, without losing the tone of  the pine or adding a lot of weight. It obviously adds some extra time to glue up panels. In the future, I might forego biscuits and use either dominoes or dovetails. The latter obviously also adds some added labor. But I have built enough that there is little need to make more.....🤔

 

That said, if I use 1/2" BB, it also reduces weight......This assumes I am going to use tolex to cover the plywood.

I always liked the strength and look of dovetail joinery.

You can also go the Kreg pocket hole route:

https://www.kregtool.com/shop/sale/?gad_source=5

1 hour ago, tbonesullivan said:

I am an unabashed fan of Avatar Cabinets. I have three of their 2x12s, two "Traditional" and one "contemporary". They used to make a 1x12 Forte cabinet, but do not anymore. They do however make some really nice 1x12s even without the Forte, and you can order them without speakers so you can install your own, or one that they do not carry.

My only regret with them is that when I got the 12-6 bass cab that I didn't go for the Neo speaker, because it can only handle 250W. Looking back I'm never going to use anything with it that puts out over 250 watts so I Should have gotten it and shaved 7lbs off the weight.

I'd like to try the Avatar cabs.

[planetgaffnet]

I've been through more cabinet combinations than I care to remember and nowadays it's more about downsizing my day to day kit.  I still own a Barefaced Big One (15/6) but a couple of years back I bought a pair of Darkglass 1x12s.  I can use them as singles or double them up; they're rated 500w/8 ohm, lightweight (12.5kg), capable.

UK price was £600/$750 each, Sweetwater do them for $810 a pop (I was actually more surprised that they weren't actually cheaper than the UK price despite being made in Finland).  Expect this price to increase once tariffs kick in your side.

[planetgaffnet]

1 hour ago, planetgaffnet said:

I've been through more cabinet combinations than I care to remember and nowadays it's more about downsizing my day to day kit.  I still own a Barefaced Big One (15/6) but a couple of years back I bought a pair of Darkglass 1x12s.  I can use them as singles or double them up; they're rated 500w/8 ohm, lightweight (12.5kg), capable.

UK price was £600/$750 each, Sweetwater do them for $810 a pop (I was actually more surprised that they weren't actually cheaper than the UK price despite being made in Finland).  Expect this price to increase once tariffs kick in your side.

Oops.  My post was bass cabinets.

Sometimes I need to read more than the subject line.  😄

[LucSulla]

Hate I missed this, but this is the guy who builds cabs for Bogner. 

https://vboutiqueusa.com/shop/v-cube-2/

[django49]

15 hours ago, LucSulla said:

Hate I missed this, but this is the guy who builds cabs for Bogner. 

https://vboutiqueusa.com/shop/v-cube-2/

Thumbs up on their "Vumble".