Floyd or Kahler?

[sw686blue]

Floyd for me. I just don't like the look of a Kahler.

[LordOfTheThighs]

Floyd for me. I just don't like the look of a Kahler.

I can't concentrate on what you say, because of your HOT ASS AVATAR!

[sw686blue]

Floyd for me. I just don't like the look of a Kahler.

I can't concentrate on what you say, because of your HOT ASS AVATAR!

She should have be on my pole, I mean, in this poll and she wood, I mean, would have gotten my vote!

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Never tried a Kahler so my choice is biased. All my guitars have FRs but I favour the ones with a really thick baseplate ie: Hamer/Schaller on my Cent, Gotoh on my Korean Diablo & the Peavey one on my Rotor EXP - all have a super-thick baseplate. I wouldn't recommend licensed ones tho' except maybe Washburns (thick-bp [again])...

[zenmindbeginner]

Kahlers can't do the flutter effect and some of the FR tight warbling as well. Kahler just comes up short in those two aspects. Kahlers also have that G string tuning Achilles heel that is sooo not cool.

What are kahler's strong points? They are as smooth as silk... Like the power steering of a Cadillac (the FR has the tight steering of a Volkswagen). That smoothness lends itself to some unique sounding tremolo work. The Kahler requires a lighter touch than the FR, definitely the difference between rollers and spring tension.

What's the other difference? TONE!

Kahler uses the existing nut and the FR does not. The FR nut is a tone sucking Wampyre that leaves sustain and removes 35% of the tone. The tone it sucks out is all of the delicate and ephemoral harmonic overtones that are produced when a vibrating string is picked up by a magnet and converted to voltage.

My FR equipped guitars sound flat and 2D through my blackface Fenders... no tone to speak of.

My Kahlered axes sound like monsters through them and have tone very comparable to TOM bridges.

I don't actually use the bars and am only interested in the locking nuts. Today's locking tuners are as good as yesterday's locking nuts though... my Sperzels can really do the job of handling my aggressive picking style.

Of course, the FR tone dampening nut lend themselves to high output pups that would sound horribly harsh without them. Since you still get similar sustain, the effect is a high gain lead machine that lends itself to acrobatic and difficult lead playing. Floyd Rose practicaly invented what we know as "shredding".

Floyd Rose + vintage amps = meh

Kahler + vintage amps = awesome

[cmatthes]

I've had many times more Floyds than Kahlers over the years, but like different things about both.

At present, I don't really use either. I am more than happy with either the Wilkinson or the PRS trems I have, and they definitely get the job done without the locking nuts.

As much as I loved my Floyded guitars, there was a certain metallic harshness to the sound of every one of those guitars that grated on me a bit. There are definitely ways to minimize that feature, but I still pick it up every time I hear it.

[svl]

Kahlers are the only way to go for me. Been using them since the '80s.

Floyds seem rather stiff, while the Kahlers have a much more "human" feel IMO. And I agree with zen 110% percent on the tone suck, all my Kahlers have blown any of the Floyds I've owned out of the water in that department for sure. Not even a contest.

I've been blessed in that I've never had the "G" string (or any other) tuning issues with any of my Kahlers. My new favorite baby is my Kahler equipped '82 Sunburst, she's become my number one in very short order, and I can't get her to go out of tune no matter what I do.

[Scottcrud]

I like them both. I've got a Kahler steeler on my Robin Raider and love it. I've got a liscensed FR on my NJ Mockingbird that actually feels better than my Steeler...Got a Kahler on my 80 special and it works fine... And I'm a bit of a Kerry King/Gary Holt type Trem abuser.

[Halowords]

Two questions in regards to this:

1) What can a Floyd do that a Kahler not? I thought the only real thing a Floyd could do that the Kahler couldn't (other than go insanely and instantly out of tune with string breaks) was the tremolo flutter. Is that it? Is that even true?

2) Any good examples? I'm toying with the idea of getting a Floyd or Kahler installed guitar. However, I have never really used or very often coveted a whammy bar. Are there any good songs with use of a whammy bar that will show me what I'm missing? Otherwise I might just stick w/ a TOM bridge and my fingers for the old classical style vibrato and bends, and say screw it to the tremolo acrobatics.

-Cheers

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

Two questions in regards to this:

1) What can a Floyd do that a Kahler not? I thought the only real thing a Floyd could do that the Kahler couldn't (other than go insanely and instantly out of tune with string breaks) was the tremolo flutter. Is that it? Is that even true?

2) Any good examples? I'm toying with the idea of getting a Floyd or Kahler installed guitar. However, I have never really used or very often coveted a whammy bar. Are there any good songs with use of a whammy bar that will show me what I'm missing? Otherwise I might just stick w/ a TOM bridge and my fingers for the old classical style vibrato and bends, and say screw it to the tremolo acrobatics.

-Cheers

I don't like trems much. However, the one thing I can't get around is you can't do Barracuda without a trem.

[Armitage]

I'm one of the few lovers of the Washburn Wonderbar (everyone used to make fun of it)... it's the best of a Kahler with a second set of rollers to hold the strings down, and an arm that gets completely out of my way. I'm always hitting my Floyd arms with my baby finger... It's easy to set the arm's tension and setting the trem for drops only too.

It's a good thing I got a bunch of spare parts back then though, I don't imagine I could get a arm tension ring or torsion bar etc easily now.

I've had plenty of Kahlers (with the rollers), and while they're perfectly OK, I prefer a Floyd...

The "Floyd Like" Kahler on my Vandenberg Custom neck-thru, a 2720 Spyder, is fantastic though. You can even change out the knife edges... a big plus.

BTW, www.wammiworld.com seems to have found tons of Kahler parts... even Spyder bodies... I got the last one from Peavey's Artist Relations a couple years back... after a long search.

[Armitage]

I just wanted to add that www.fretsonthenet.com is a great resource for odd trem parts...

[jettster]

I played a Kahler equipped guitar for 13-14 years, once I tried a Floyd, I could never go back to the Kahler. Floyds are a pain in the ass to setup but, once you have them set right, nothing else I have compares for staying in tune. My Floyded guitars stay in tune better than my fixed bridge T-51 with Locking tuners or my G&L's also with locking tuners. Double bends are definitely tricky but not impossible.

A few years back I bought a TLE and the guitar but hated the Kahler, it had to go. Seems like the Kahler trem kills much of the sustain as well. I would have to pass on any guitar with a Kahler these days. Floyd hands down...

Never mind, I didn't realize this was an old post.....

[Halowords]

Never mind, I didn't realize this was an old post.....

Yet still relevant. Or at least with revived interest

Not to milk this along, but are there any tricks that you really CAN'T do on a Kahler that you can do on a Floyd?

Also, I'd be interested if many song actually NEED a trem. We've got Barracuda, anything else? I know there are parts of songs I like that have it, but very few really come to mind where heavy vibrato, dive bombs, and tremolo flutter are really prevalent or integral to the song. I'm sure there out there, and maybe this speaks to my styles & preferences, but all I can come up with are the trem-drop in Little Wing, o.k. every Steve Vai song I've heard, and some Disturbed song I heard on the radio of which I don't even know the name. Sure, there are others, but very few where I go "wow, I sure couldn't do a passable version of that without a whammy bar."

-Cheers

[Scottcrud]

Also, I'd be interested if many song actually NEED a trem. We've got Barracuda, anything else? I

-Cheers

I'd say just about the whole Slayer catalog needs a trem!

Another thing I like about the Kahler is that the tuning screws are long enough to go from 440 (E) down 1 whole step to D. Can't do that on a Floyd, at lead I've never been able to on my floyd equipped guitars.

[coolfeel]

Sorry if this was mentioned earlier, but...

I bought an Original Washburn N4 in 1991 and it had a Kahler Steeler tremolo that looked like a floyd but with a reccessed or reclined tuner platform (if that makes sense). It was super comfortable and the sustain was great for a floyd type set up. I had played guitars with original floyds before and the Kahler Steeler is the best floyd rose I have ever had experience with.

[jettster]

Never mind, I didn't realize this was an old post.....

Yet still relevant. Or at least with revived interest

Not to milk this along, but are there any tricks that you really CAN'T do on a Kahler that you can do on a Floyd?

Also, I'd be interested if many song actually NEED a trem. We've got Barracuda, anything else? I know there are parts of songs I like that have it, but very few really come to mind where heavy vibrato, dive bombs, and tremolo flutter are really prevalent or integral to the song. I'm sure there out there, and maybe this speaks to my styles & preferences, but all I can come up with are the trem-drop in Little Wing, o.k. every Steve Vai song I've heard, and some Disturbed song I heard on the radio of which I don't even know the name. Sure, there are others, but very few where I go "wow, I sure couldn't do a passable version of that without a whammy bar."

-Cheers

Forgot that I had already put my .02 cents in on this thread a long time ago.

I'd be the wrong person to ask the song question since it's been well over a decade (actually closer to two) that I've spent any time or effort playing anyone else’s music. Nothing wrong with it, just not how I care to spend my limited amount of playing time. Personally, I use the trem more for lead work than anything else. Subtle vibrato, some warble and the occasional note dive or pull. To be fair the Kahler might be easier for subtle vibrato with it's softer springs.

[Halowords]

Forgot that I had already put my .02 cents in on this thread a long time ago.

I'd be the wrong person to ask the song question since it's been well over a decade (actually closer to two) that I've spent any time or effort playing anyone else’s music. Nothing wrong with it, just not how I care to spend my limited amount of playing time. Personally, I use the trem more for lead work than anything else. Subtle vibrato, some warble and the occasional note dive or pull. To be fair the Kahler might be easier for subtle vibrato with it's softer springs.

I'm actually more interested in writing/playing my own stuff, however I'm trying to decide if there are things I'd really need a trem for that I'd actually be inclined to write/play. I'm not so much interested in doing them for a tribute cover band, just whether or not it'd be worth getting a guitar that had one. I'm a bit torn in that regard as they kinda sound cool, but I am not entirely convinced I'd ever really use one

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

Forgot that I had already put my .02 cents in on this thread a long time ago.

I'd be the wrong person to ask the song question since it's been well over a decade (actually closer to two) that I've spent any time or effort playing anyone else’s music. Nothing wrong with it, just not how I care to spend my limited amount of playing time. Personally, I use the trem more for lead work than anything else. Subtle vibrato, some warble and the occasional note dive or pull. To be fair the Kahler might be easier for subtle vibrato with it's softer springs.

I'm actually more interested in writing/playing my own stuff, however I'm trying to decide if there are things I'd really need a trem for that I'd actually be inclined to write/play. I'm not so much interested in doing them for a tribute cover band, just whether or not it'd be worth getting a guitar that had one. I'm a bit torn in that regard as they kinda sound cool, but I am not entirely convinced I'd ever really use one

If you want to do any surf music, I think you gotta have a trem, no?

Also, the intro to "I'm a Believer" by Giant needs a trem.

Van Halen's Eruption needs a trem, but other than that, I think he usually confines trem use to his solos...with the exception of a song or two (Hot Summer Nights on 5150?) that he uses a Steinberger Trans Trem...

Most Night Ranger songs feature Brad Gillis doing some trem work in the intro or in solos...specifically, you gotta have the trem to do the intro to "Rock in America".

...which makes me also remember: you gotta have a trem for Montrose's "Bad Motor Scooter" and Motley Crue's "Kickstart my Heart", both of which try to emulate a two-wheeled motorized vehicle running up through the gears.

Oh, and Bon Jovi's "Silent Night" off of "7800 Fahrenheit" needs a trem.

And if anything, Satch uses a trem more than Vai does.