Echotone upgrades

[sjturbo]

I picked up an echotone and would like some advise on upgrading the bridge and tuners. If you have changed pickups I would be interested in that also. It was a good deal so I have some room to upgrade.

[Steve Haynie]

If you do not have tuning or intonation problems leave it alone and save some money.

[JohnnyB]

I've had pickup, pot, wiring, and hardware upgrades done on a number of Asian guitars, including an MIJ Ibanez 335-type (Duncans), several MIKs including an Epi Casino (Fralin P-90s) two Epiphone Les Pauls (Gibson 57/Duncan Antiquities hybrids, Rio Grande Texas/BBQ bucker), a Washburn hollowbody thinline (Rio Grande P90 BarPack), an MIK Gretsch Synchromatic (Gibson Johnny Smith), a Cort fretless bass (USA Bartolini soapbars and preamp/pots/harness), and my most recent, an MII (Indonesia) Squier fretless jazz bass (Bartolini PUs and Babicz bridge).

The biggest improvement is the pickups. The fundamental tone of the stock Duncan-designed pickups is pretty good, but they don't have the tonal, dynamic, and frequency range of better pickups. The better pickups are more expressive and you get softer softs and louder louds, as well as a more musical, smoother overall sound with better pickups. You'll get a more noticeable difference (in my experience), by getting the better aftermarket pickups--Rio Grandes, Lindy Fralin, USA Bartolini, Lollar, etc. I didn't notice that much difference between the stock Ibanez 58 humbuckers vs. Duncan's mass-produced Jazz and '59 that replaced them. However, the Duncans from their custom shop and Antiquities line are excellent.

While you're swapping pickups, swap the harness wiring for Gibson wire or something of equivalent quality. You may be better off simply replacing the whole harness--wires, pots, switches, and especially the output jack. The stock output jacks on Asian imports are made from thinner gauge steel and lose their ability to grip quicker. So you may as well swap it now for a Switchcraft, because you'll surely need to do it after you've plugged and unplugged the guitar a number of times.

As for the bridge and tailpiece, I guess that depends. I had an MIK LP Standard. A buddy replaced the pickups with Gibson '57 Classic coils and Duncan Antiquities magnets. Those made a great difference. I also swapped the stock bridge for a Gotoh. The Gotoh allowed more intonation range, but didn't allow for as sharp a break angle over the strings, and sonically I couldn't tell any difference.

OTOH, I replaced the flimsy Squier bass bridge with a Babicz, which not only has a lightweight cast plate, but has lockdowns for both saddle length and height. Now that made a noticeable difference in sustain, bass heft, and tonal focus. I think half of that was the cast plate and the other half the lockdown. So unless your bridge is just unusably gawdawful, you probably won't notice a tone difference unless you go with TonePros or Babicz. The Babicz has the additional advantage of individual string height adjustment, and the mechanism to dial in perfect individual string height is the easiest I've encountered.

So anyway, to summarize replacement priorities: 1) Pickups (and get good ones), 2) output jack, 3) wiring/pots/switches, and a distant 4th, tuna/stoptail unless you go with a lockdown type.

[Feynman]

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[cynic]

When I was thinking of swapping the bridge on my Echotone, I read on a couple sites that Faber bridges had been used with good results. I never made the swap so I can't personally suggest or recommend them, just throwing a name out you might add to your research.

Also, the majority of the praise I read was from a couple popular forums named after that Polsfuss fella where everything seems to be the "best product ever" as soon as any one person there says it is, so I'd take it with the usual grains of salt.

[sjturbo]

Thanks for the replys!

1. Yes I do have some problems with intonation. The original bridge screws are loose I am not excited about their quality. Tuners are not to bad but have some trouble staying in tune. Thanks much

2.WOW, lotsa information! I'm not sure I can justify Lollars or something in that range, but Dimarzio,s PAF 36th anniversary I've heard are good. I actually have read that the Ibanez Super 58's were quite good, I actually had been looking into them! Regarding the wiring, pots, and caps, do you have any suggestions? I will look into the Babicz bridge. Thanks much!!

3. I have often had a problem with bandwidth, I just buy one size larger!

Thanks, again!

[JohnnyB]

2.WOW, lotsa information!

Yep, that's me.

I'm not sure I can justify Lollars or something in that range, but Dimarzio,s PAF 36th anniversary I've heard are good. I actually have read that the Ibanez Super 58's were quite good, I actually had been looking into them!

If I had it to do over again, I should have stayed with the 58s, and maybe upgraded to Gibson Classic '57s because they are reputed to really nail the 335 tone.

Regarding the wiring, pots, and caps, do you have any suggestions?

I went with what the tech had on his test bench. It's usually Gibson wire, CTS pots, and Switchcraft jack. Not sure what the PU selector was.

[sjturbo]

Yep, shoulda, kuda, wuda! Been there many times. Actually I was thinking even less expensive. Listen to this ytube clip. GFS Vintage 59's. Sounds good and resonably inexpensive. I might try these first.

[gorch]

I've done extensive upgrades on a MIK Standard. From that experience, I'd recommend swapping pickups first. For the echotone I'd look out for some nice Jazz oriented humbuckers or classic P90/P94 in humbucker format. Recommendation goes for lower wound pickups, less than 7k impedance.

Second I'd change pots and cabs for better volume and tone control.

Unless it wouldn't stay in tune, I'd leave the bridge and tuners as they are. Same with the output jack. My guitar is from 2002 and the outpuck jack is still original and perfectly working.

[hamerhead]

Hey! I have one just like yours!

I thought the tuners were not-so-good, and replaced them with Sperzels. BIG improvement! I replaced the nut with a bone one (that was more of a head thing than a necessity - the original was probably fine). The bridge saddles look like crap, but so far I haven't touched those. That'll probably be next.

And this morning I dropped in a set of these, and just now stress-tested them. Whoa. These are great. HUGE improvement. Straight into the old Vibrolux, the neck has a sweet chime, the bridge a nice growl. Together gets a CCR/Doobies/Eagles -type rhythm sound that is warm, full and articulate. I really was not expecting these to be that good, but holy sh!t! At $80 for the pair, you absolutely cannot go wrong. In fact, if you get a set and don't like them, I'll take them off your hands - that's how good I think they are. Plus - they look really cool. The only thing I ran into is the supplied bridge ring is shorter than the original - I'm at max height and it could stand to be raised a bit more - so use the original.

This guitar is really coming around, and for the money is quite good.

Good luck!!

[BTMN]

Great looking guitar.

Welcome too.

May I suggest Sperzel tuners. Tusq brand nut, Duncan Pearly Gates neck and Custom 5 bridge pickups, RS Guitarworks wiring kit, and a Schaller bridge with Tusq brand saddles installed. Bling!!!!

[Uncle Thor's Hamer]

I put Grover Roto-Grip 18:1 locking tuners on my Newport and love them. The 18:1 is a good thing, and I'll never go back to anything less than 16:1. They really do make it easier to fine tune. The locking mechanism grabs the string, so you barely have to wrap any string around the post. Any more than 1/2 turn is excess, though I seem to end up with about 1 full turn of string on the post. Too much string on the post will stretch and slip over time, which will cause a new string to take a lot of time to hold tuning. With locking tuners the string settles in within one song and holds tuning a long time.