Jeff R Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 What brand/model of guitar is it and how old is it? Looks pretty new. I ask because the age and price point should shed great light on if it's Brazilian rosewood or if it originated elsewhere. My guess is what we're looking at is a non-Brazilian rosewood laminate.
HSB0531 Posted July 24, 2016 Author Posted July 24, 2016 2 hours ago, Jeff R said: What brand/model of guitar is it and how old is it? Looks pretty new. I ask because the age and price point should shed great light on if it's Brazilian rosewood or if it originated elsewhere. My guess is what we're looking at is a non-Brazilian rosewood laminate. Jeff: it's a Jimmy DiSerio classical nylon string acoustic built in 1969.
HSB0531 Posted July 24, 2016 Author Posted July 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, zenmindbeginner said: Definitely Brazilian Rosewood. The back also?
zenmindbeginner Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 7 hours ago, HSB0531 said: The back also? If they could get the sides, they could get the back... obviously not from the same tree. To me, the straight grained back is the show piece and not the gorgeous sides but the back could be Indian Rosewood too. When some Brazilian Rosewood's grain get so straight/uniform and there is a lack of spiderwebbing (and the mineral streaks aren't chaotic)... it looks very much identical to Indian Rosewood. In 1969 the available stock of Brazilian Rosewood was pretty awesome... no reason to think that they had to settle for Brazilian Rosewood alternatives. Jimmy DiSerio being the godson of John D'Angelico and his first apprentice would have has access to the finest exotic wood stocks and most likely would have set aside certain boards or billets to be used on his future projects.
HSB0531 Posted July 24, 2016 Author Posted July 24, 2016 2 hours ago, zenmindbeginner said: If they could get the sides, they could get the back... obviously not from the same tree. To me, the straight grained back is the show piece and not the gorgeous sides but the back could be Indian Rosewood too. When some Brazilian Rosewood's grain get so straight/uniform and there is a lack of spiderwebbing (and the mineral streaks aren't chaotic)... it looks very much identical to Indian Rosewood. In 1969 the available stock of Brazilian Rosewood was pretty awesome... no reason to think that they had to settle for Brazilian Rosewood alternatives. Jimmy DiSerio being the godson of John D'Angelico and his first apprentice would have has access to the finest exotic wood stocks and most likely would have set aside certain boards or billets to be used on his future projects. I know that the top is spruce, the neck is mahogany, the bridge is rosewood, and the fretboard is ebony, and as you said the sides look to be Brazilian rosewood. I just have to confirm the back with a little more research. I'm getting this all researched because it's going to be sold on eBay in the near future.
crunchee Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 One way to find out: Ask your friendly Customs agents about it when crossing International borders with the guitar. Especially without any documentation. Edited to add: Nowadays, sometimes it's just better NOT knowing, because of the CITES issues. There's a reason why PRS has "Custom For USA Only" written on the back of the headstocks for any of their guitars with Brazilian rosewood content.
HSB0531 Posted July 24, 2016 Author Posted July 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, crunchee said: One way to find out: Ask your friendly Customs agents about it when crossing International borders with the guitar. Especially without any documentation.
zenmindbeginner Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 2 hours ago, HSB0531 said: I just have to confirm the back with a little more research. Cool, let's get down to details In 1965 Brazil placed an embargo on whole Rosewood logs coming out of Brazil... probably too late to affect the construction of this guitar (but maybe not). That prevented quartersawed backs but didn't affect slab or plain-sawn backs because the sheer size you needed to make quartersawed backs was much greater than what you needed to make slab or plain-sawn backs. The fact that the back is quarter-sawn is congruent with the history of the availability of Brazilian Rosewood and is most likely Indian Rosewood despite my previous observations.
HSB0531 Posted July 24, 2016 Author Posted July 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, zenmindbeginner said: Cool, let's get down to details In 1965 Brazil placed an embargo on whole Rosewood logs coming out of Brazil... probably too late to affect the construction of this guitar (but maybe not). That prevented quartersawed backs but didn't affect slab or plain-sawn backs because the sheer size you needed to make quartersawed backs was much greater than what you needed to make slab or plain-sawn backs. The fact that the back is quarter-sawn is congruent with the history of the availability of Brazilian Rosewood and is most likely Indian Rosewood despite my previous observations. I was thinking the same thing about the back. I know he worked with D'Angelico until 1959, then got his own shop. So there is a possibility that he took wood blanks with him or was able to buy a large supply up until the embargo.
HSB0531 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 16 hours ago, crunchee said: One way to find out: Ask your friendly Customs agents about it when crossing International borders with the guitar. Especially without any documentation. Edited to add: Nowadays, sometimes it's just better NOT knowing, because of the CITES issues. There's a reason why PRS has "Custom For USA Only" written on the back of the headstocks for any of their guitars with Brazilian rosewood content. So does this mean I can't sell it without getting arrested and it being confiscated??
Teh Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 13 hours ago, it's me HHB said: Wasnt 69 last year for brazilian on Martins? Martin released the D35 with the 3 piece back in 1965 to stretch the use of BRW as long as possible. They introduced Indian Rosewood in 1969 with the D21. They completely abandoned BRW in early 1970 on all their models due to supply issues and their inability to oversee the sawing and curing of the logs.
Teh Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 2 hours ago, HSB0531 said: So does this mean I can't sell it without getting arrested and it being confiscated?? No. It just means you can't export it outside the USA without source documentation and whole lot of hassle.
HSB0531 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 19 hours ago, crunchee said: One way to find out: Ask your friendly Customs agents about it when crossing International borders with the guitar. Especially without any documentation. Edited to add: Nowadays, sometimes it's just better NOT knowing, because of the CITES issues. There's a reason why PRS has "Custom For USA Only" written on the back of the headstocks for any of their guitars with Brazilian rosewood content. So does this mean I can't sell it without getting arrested and it being confiscated??
django49 Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 47 minutes ago, HSB0531 said: So does this mean I can't sell it without getting arrested and it being confiscated?? To be on the safe side, make it a CONUS sale only. As long as you do not cross any (national) borders, you would not need to document anything. Naturally, someone would likely pay more IF you could document BRW.
HSB0531 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 7 minutes ago, django49 said: To be on the safe side, make it a CONUS sale only. As long as you do not cross any (national) borders, you would not need to document anything. Naturally, someone would likely pay more IF you could document BRW. 7 minutes ago, django49 said: To be on the safe side, make it a CONUS sale only. As long as you do not cross any (national) borders, you would not need to document anything. Naturally, someone would likely pay more IF you could document BRW. 7 minutes ago, django49 said: To be on the safe side, make it a CONUS sale only. As long as you do not cross any (national) borders, you would not need to document anything. Naturally, someone would likely pay more IF you could document BRW. Thats what I would do. Right now I'm still looking through the sheet music and photos. He did play The Metropolitan Opera, but I can't find a link yet to this guitar. Best I have right now is a picture of him playing it at Elizabeth Taylor's NYC apartment for a party in 1978.
HSB0531 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 49 minutes ago, gtrdaddy said: Sure looks like BRW to me. Yes the sides definitely and the bridge too, but it's the back that I'm not 100% sure of.
HSB0531 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, gtrdaddy said: I would say more than likely, yes to the back. It appears to be finished without a high gloss clear coat. This would explain the lesser detail in the grain as grain in wood typically 'pops' when wet. Shiny glossy clear coats on wood have the same effect when dry; the wood looks wet and the grain stands out. When I've gone through wood to pick out tops for guitars I've had built, I would have a soaking wet rag and would wipe the dry wood with it to get it wet so I could see what they will look like finished. You would be amazed at how less special the most gorgeous quilt and flame maple looks before it is finished. Yeah the bridge and the sides have a shinier clear coat. The spruce top and rosewood back are not as shiny.
HSB0531 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Posted July 26, 2016 Digging through the pictures and sheet music I unearthed this picture of Tommy Lucas playing this guitar at Liz Taylor's Apt. In NYC 1978.
Question
HSB0531
Walnut? Indian Rosewood? Brazilian Rosewood?
25 answers to this question
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.