PA recommendations...

[shankyboy]

I have a larger PA that I use for the Pop & Rock bands that I do sound for(EAW Speakers and Crown Amps), but for my own band gigs, I have been using my Mackie 808 with the passive Mackie 450s for the mains and a pair of Yamaha club series 15s w/horns for monitors. My band is a 6 piece band with horns & keys and this PA is all I ever need for any of the club gigs that I do. It is very clean and the 808 has more than enough power & headroom. (I think the 450s were designed specifically for the 808 head) I have owned some of the lower end powered heads, Peavey, Crate and Fender and they just don't have enough horsepower to give you a good clean sound. I think Mackie is the king of small club PAs.

[Hamer Bass Head]

clarify this for me; in "hotel california" the guitar sounded like shit or did the vocals sound like shit too? does the guitar have a preamp or were you plugging it straight into the mixer? If it's a piezo pickup without the preamp, you may have an impedance problem, it may not be the mixer at all. Is the peavey stereo or mono? if it's stereo you will be running 8 ohms per side cutting your headroom by about 30% maybe more. You don't need 15's to get bass but you do need cabinets designed to reproduce it. I am using 2 cabinets I built myself with 2 10's in each with horns on top for music playback and for light to medium pa use; and the 10's aren't anything fancy but the cabinets are big and heavy and made for truly full range sound and I'd put them up against anything you could buy costing 2 or 3 times what they cost to build. The carvin mixers are really nice, I also am using the 1644p and it is great. If I can find a power amp for the right price I may add another pair of 2x 10"s and use 2 channels of the carvin for monitors. I won't have a problem micing drums for a medium sized club with the additional pair of boxes.

[sirDaniel]

We rent it as well. Idiots cannot blow this stuff up.

Yorkville stuff is well respected.

I use EV powered stuff exclusively; and have for years, but would not hesitate to put my hard earned money on either.

After running PAs for decades, I am a FIRM believer now in powered speaker boxes from GOOD companies. To me, having the amps match the speakers seems to alleviate a miriade of spookies.

I have (2) 12" two way, (2) 15" two way, and a big powered 18" sub, with a second sub available ( i don't own it).

So...I decide what my power requirements are for the gig and go from there. A coffee house gig usually uses 1 or 2 of the small boxes. Big rooms go with 2 big boxes. etc....

The speakers both have "mixers" on the back so you can run a line in or a mic directly into them. That adds to the flexability. My setup always sounds punchy and clear with minimal fussing.

[DavidE]

My post wasn't trying to discredit anybody so I hope that it wasn't taken that way. It's just my opinion after being a professional live sound engineer for the last ten years.

Not taken that way. I just think you're wrong on this one. And that's based on 25 years of gigging experience and the gigging experience of many club-based acoustic acts.

Would your way be better? Hell yeah. I'd love to take subs, high packs, all kinds of outboard gear, etc.... but it's just not necessary for 99% of these types of gigs. And since I have to carry my gear to my acoustic gigs..... there's really no choice. ;-)

I also suggest a Rock n' Roller cart. There's really no reason to lift more than necessary.

Wow. Wrong, huh? Not trying to get in a pissing match with you (nothing is more pathetic than an internet argument) but I engineer everyday and have for a very long time. My suggestion would fix the problem and therefore is not wrong. Seems like you took what I said kind of personally. It's not a big deal. To each his own, but wrong I am not.

I never mentioned bringing subs and all of that stuff, not sure where you got that. I clearly stated that a good power amp would provide headroom and therefore clear up the fuzziness of the band in the mix. Which, by the way, is correct.

I respect the fact that you have been gigging for a long time. This is in no way a diss on you my fellow HFC bro!

Maybe I need to be more clear.

You stated that a mixer/amp head in a box could not cut it for music gigs. You stated that as an absolute. That's where I think you are wrong. The testimony of others in this thread bears this out.

Would your solution solve the problem? Maybe, but not necessarily when it comes to the 12 string sounding like it's going through a fuzz box when it's only that guitar and one vocal.

As for Yorkville stuff, I don't see it here too often. But I did see a pro Yorkville rig being used at an outdoor gig by John Berry (country guy) and the sound was impressive. I recently saw a local guy with a Yorkville head in a box, some small Yorkville speakers (looked like 10's) and a powered Mackie Sub. Acoustic guitar and vocals. The system sounded very good and clear.

[BCR Greg]

I use a Yorkville M810 head (2 x 400 watt amps)...

a pair of Yorkville Y115 speakers...

a pair of LS700P powered subs(700 watts each)...

and four Y115m monitors...

That rig runs my whole band quite well. For acoustic gigs, we use a pair of speakers and a pair of monitors and leave two monitors and the subs in the truck.

I could be happier, if Winona Ryder and Tyra Banks carried the stuff and ran it, but otherwise it's an ideal rig.

And yes, we are a dealer.

[kizanski]

I could be happier, if Winona Ryder and Tyra Banks carried the stuff and ran it, but otherwise it's an ideal rig.

I'm all for bringing Tyra along, but that Winona steals sh!t.

[BCR Greg]

Yeah, but she is HOT. I'd have one of the crew keep an eye on her.

[Guest galejt]

She can sing too!

[HamerHokie]

I think powered speakers are the way to go, but I'm not aware of a powered 'stick' speaker that is biamped with a 15" woofer. Someone probably makes one.

[sirDaniel]

I have a pair of EV SXA250 15"/2 way biamp. they KICK!

If I added one piece of gear to an existing PA to increase it's effectiveness, it would be a DBX Driverack

WITH THE INTRODUCTION of DriveRack PA, dbx has brought big-time touring technology to the masses in a one rack-space box that costs no more than a good equalizer. The smallest member of dbx's line of speaker management systems, DriveRack PA comes close to fulfilling dbx's claim that it is “the only device that you will need between the mixer and power amps.”

It seems as though every multifunction device gets compared to a Swiss Army knife. But the DriveRack PA is more like a machine shop, combining a 28-band graphic EQ, a Real Time Analyzer, a subharmonic synthesizer (for fattening up the bottom end), a compressor, an active crossover with parametric EQ, and automatic feedback suppression. It also has a limiter and speaker alignment delay on each output. The audio quality is quite good, and the A/D and D/A conversions do not degrade the sound with obvious “digititus.”

WHO NEEDS IT?

DriveRack PA has something to offer to all but the smallest sound systems. It must be connected between mixer and power amplifiers, so it won't work with certain powered mixers. (In order to benefit from DriveRack PA, such units must have a patch bay that includes mixer Out and power-amp In jacks, and the power amp input must be a switching jack that disconnects the internal path from the mixer when a plug is inserted. Otherwise, the power amp will see the processed signal combined with the direct mixer output, which will be ineffective and produce a comb-filter effect as a result of the processing time of DriveRack PA's digital engines.)

DriveRack PA can be not only your first upgrade to a simple P.A., but also a unit that can grow with your system as you expand it. Any band or performer who wrangles a portable sound system around without help from an engineer will appreciate both the audible improvements brought by the unit's Auto EQ function, as well as the security provided by its automatic feedback filters.

Then, when you decide to expand your system — lets say you add subwoofers — the crossovers, delays, and parametric EQ in the DriveRack PA are ready to help you easily integrate your new additions. In fact, the unit's software includes setup Wizards to take the trauma out of tuning biamped or triamped speaker systems. For the more technically inclined, there's also compression and a subharmonic synthesizer on board to allow further audio flexibility.

[Scooter]

The Carvin stuff sounds good on paper, but in reality it sounds pretty dull. I say nay.

I've had excellent luck with Mackie mixers/amps and Club series Yamaha Speakers. (The Club V series has the nice Speakon connectors.)

Very honest sound reproduction without breaking the bank.

[Brooks]

a pair of Yorkville Y115 speakers...

i will add a +1 to using 15's for your mains over 12's.

i also have those same yorkville 15's that greg uses,

but i loaded JBL 15's in them, they kickass.

also use a yamaha powered mixer

w/ 200w for mains & 200w for monitors.

this is fine for the bars and restaurants we (acoustic duo) play

(a few big rooms, but mostly small dives).

[hardheartedbill]

Soulbone uses the Yamaha club series 115/horn cabs and matching bass bins, it's all powered by a Yamaha ex5000 and one additional amp for the subs, I can't say enough good things about the Yamaha club series and EX board, were never under powered and leave the subs in the trailer for the acoustic gigs

[Hamer Bass Head]

+ 1 on the dbx driverack....

[Turdus]

The Carvin stuff sounds good on paper, but in reality it sounds pretty dull. I say nay.

I've not heard that much Carvin PA gear, so as a general statement, that may be true. I was fortunate enough to have an 808S in my possession to test out against the Carvin mixer I got. I really expected the Mackie to bury it, and it did not. Matter of fact, the Carvin was a bit quieter than the Mackie, as far as hiss coming through the speakers, etc.

I've also been able to drive a Mackie into clipping range, and it is not a pretty sound. Not knocking the Mackie. I like their stuff. Let's just say that I was impressed by this particular Carvin piece. Only time will tell how reliable it is going to be.

[edgar_allan_poe]

This is why I love this place...

I sincerely thank each and every one of you.

This is going to be something I have to sit down and discuss with the band. If it were up to me, I would wind up blowing a bunch of dough and do it right...but it isn't only my call and the last thing I want to do is foot the entire bill.

I know for a fact that we need to get a new head/mixer. I believe that the venues we play are small enough to be able to use these without sounding like shit. I will go and check out the Mackie tonight and see what I think.