Binding Question

[BoogieMKIIA]

The binding on my Martin is coming loose on the bottom/back. I have thin super glue, is this typically what is used to re-attach the binding?

If I attempt myself, can I work a bit at a time or do I need to glue the entire loose part at one time?  Can finger pressure work to hold it in place until set or should I bind it with cloth strips?

If the cost is reasonable, I may take it to RS Guitar works and not worry.

[kizanski]

Is it a Martin Martin? Spend a couple of bucks and get it fixed right.

[BoogieMKIIA]

Yes, the real deal. Also noticed it lifting a bit on the other side. Worth getting done right 

[kizanski]

Then get it done right and stop this super glue talk. 

[Steve Haynie]

If Martin can fix that in-house it gives you a reason to make the pilgrimage to Nazareth, PA.  

If you are good at repair work you can attempt to fix that binding.  If you can find someone who regularly fixes problems like that the end result will likely be unnoticeable.  

My vote is for letting a pro do the job on an expensive guitar.  

[BoogieMKIIA]

41 minutes ago, Steve Haynie said:

If Martin can fix that in-house it gives you a reason to make the pilgrimage to Nazareth, PA.  

If you are good at repair work you can attempt to fix that binding.  If you can find someone who regularly fixes problems like that the end result will likely be unnoticeable.  

My vote is for letting a pro do the job on an expensive guitar.  

Never made the pilgrimage to Nazareth. Can’t at the moment but a great excuse to do so.  I think the lead time is something like 6 months? 

The separation is from the shoulder down to the widest part of the lower bout. The narrow and wide binding have also separated from each other. Not for a novice, all things considered and the comments. It has spent a lot of time in the case the past year, in the house. Weird to see that much separation all at once. It is a 1987 model so must be age related.

[Jeff R]

I've done this repair too many times to count. It is not age related, it is Martin related. Their white and ivory bindings shrink, causing them to pull loose from the waist curves. I've seen it with imports and Nazareths, single and mult-plies, old ones and not so old ones. You'd think they would have changed the binding material by now.

If your DIY game is strong

• I use Titebond Red Label in a tiny needle-nosed bottle as my adhesive. There are binding cements that work better, as does CA, but EVERY adhesive I've tried, even sparingly, creates a squeeze-out mess. The trick here is to use a WATER SOLUBLE glue whose leftover residues can easily be cleaned with a wet cloth during the glue up as it squeezes out, and then after the glue up is cured. If you use the cement or the super glue, you run risk of messing up your clearcoat, requiring a wetsand and buffing and if really bad some refin work. I cannot emphasize this enough ... the DIYer should use a water soluble glue.
• Prior to glue up, clean up the exposed binding channel with a little folded wedge of 400 grit sandpaper to remove any old glue crust, followed by cotton swabs dipped in VM&P naphtha.
• Line your bench or table with a few dozen pre-torn pieces of tape, more than you think you will need. You will not be able to tear tape when you try to feed the binding into the channel gluing as you go.
• Use a heat gun or a hairdryer to soften the binding immediately before glue up so you can GENTLY stretch it back into the binding channel. Don't overheat the binding!
• Use a lot of masking tape to hold the binding in place and let it sit a few days to make sure it's fully cured.
• When fully dry, GENTLY SLOWLY DELICATELY remove the tape, so you don't accidentally pull up clearcoat with the tape. Delicately scrape off any squeeze-out boogers with a fingernail or the edge of a credit card. Remove any glue film with a warm, damp rag. Go slow and let the damp rag do the work.

[kizanski]

...or have a pro do it.

[Steve Haynie]

If Martin is backed up six months for repairs go ahead and get on the waiting list.  You can always cancel your place in line if you cannot go up there.  

Seeing Roy at RS would be an opportunity to drive through the mountains and visit some natural wonders and historic sites.  

Jeff gives you an opportunity to go where even little girls wrestle alligators.  Even if he has given you all the warnings above, let someone with that experience work on your Martin.

[BoogieMKIIA]

1 hour ago, Steve Haynie said:

If Martin is backed up six months for repairs go ahead and get on the waiting list.  You can always cancel your place in line if you cannot go up there.  

Seeing Roy at RS would be an opportunity to drive through the mountains and visit some natural wonders and historic sites.  

Jeff gives you an opportunity to go where even little girls wrestle alligators.  Even if he has given you all the warnings above, let someone with that experience work on your Martin.

RS is 25 miles away from me, plus they have a great coffee roaster in Winchester. The other two places are on my list.

[Cboss]

On 7/28/2024 at 1:51 PM, BoogieMKIIA said:

The binding on my Martin is coming loose on the bottom/back. I have thin super glue, is this typically what is used to re-attach the binding?

If I attempt myself, can I work a bit at a time or do I need to glue the entire loose part at one time?  Can finger pressure work to hold it in place until set or should I bind it with cloth strips?

If the cost is reasonable, I may take it to RS Guitar works and not worry.

That wood is incredible

[HamerCustomEr]

On 7/29/2024 at 5:35 AM, Steve Haynie said:

My vote is for letting a pro do the job on an expensive guitar.  

My stepfather taught me everything I know about working with tools, as follows:  "I have only one tool in my toolbox, and it is a phone to call a qualified repairman."

[BoogieMKIIA]

Finally got the Martin to RS. The guitar is very dry, wood shrinkage. They will hydrate for a while then reattach the binding.

During the exam they said it could use a neck reset, Martin may do the work under warranty - I’m the original owner with papers.  Has anyone here gotten Martin repair work? Heard any stories? I’m wondering what it takes for proof of a 37 year old guitar..

[Jeff R]

Even if you are the original owner with all paperwork in hand, and even if an authorized Martin warranty/service center avows you have babied the instrument, the hurdle you likely will not clear is that a 37-year old guitar needing a reset is not premature. ALL set-neck acoustics made of traditional tonewoods shift structurally over time, even high end Martins, regardless of your caretaking. As a rule of thumb, acoustic neck resets are not a question of if, but when.

Unless you or your agent can document a manufacturing defect that Martin acknowledges is the cause for needing a premature reset, a free reset is not part of Martin's warranty. Martin is going to say a legit manufacturing defect wouldn't have taken 30-plus years to present itself, so they will deem your claim invalid. Best of luck to you.

 

[velorush]

Just a (albeit, nosy) point of information: how much is a typical net reset (ballpark)?  

I ask because of a casual years-long shopping excursion for a really good acoustic guitar.  I have run into many that have already had a neck reset (leading me to believe others of the same vintage that have not will likely need that done).

[BoogieMKIIA]

RS said it would be around $1K if they do it. That’s why they said see if Martin would do it as warranty.  I priced it a few years ago with a Gruhn tech (they were booked, he would do it on his own), recall $1600.  
 

One way to prove a manufacturing defect could be removing the neck, it would likely destroy any evidence.  The bridge was lifting a few years ago. RS reglued it and said it had about 1/3 of normal glue coverage. That type of repair likely voids the warranty since RS is not a Martin authorized repair shop.

I will see what they say and sock away some $ if rehydration doesn’t improve things to my liking 

[Jakeboy]

Are you having any playing issues due to the alleged neck issue? I am just asking because this was just about the binding initially. Does it play like normal? 

How does the need for a neck reset present itself?

 

[Jeff R]

How does the need for a neck reset present itself?

High action after the saddle has already taken down as low as it can go. Meaning the best way to lower the action in this scenario is to change the neck angle as it relates to the body and the string plane.

The litmus test I use to check neck angle is by setting the truss rod dead straight, laying a straight edge flat on the fingerboard, and sliding the straight edge up the fretboard into the front edge of the bridge itself.

If the straightedge tip touches saddle material, you're typically in good shape. If the straightedge touches the wooden bridge material, you're typically a reset candidate.

This exaggerated diagram shows proper neck angle; then how it will shift structurally over time; and then the "after" following a neck reset.

[HSB0531]

On 8/8/2024 at 12:44 AM, HamerCustomEr said:

My stepfather taught me everything I know about working with tools, as follows:  "I have only one tool in my toolbox, and it is a phone to call a qualified repairman."

Yes indeed.  As well as a Phone + the best Deli/Pizza/Chinese/BBQ places, Hospital, Doctor, Old Time Hardware Store, Mechanic etc.

[BoogieMKIIA]

The action is a bit high for me, worse as you go up the neck, but playable. The saddle is pretty low and shouldn’t be lowered further. Some Bluegrass players would be OK with it. This guitar has failed the test Jeff describes for a long time. A straightedge falls below the top of the bridge.

Binding repair + neck reset would equal what I paid for the guitar new in 1987! But half the price or less of a new one.  I will see the post-hydration results before deciding. It is worth repairing, no doubt. I lived near Nashville when I bought it. Played lots of guitars before deciding on it. The one that beat it was a 1946 D28, too much for me back then at $5K.

[BoogieMKIIA]

The reply from Martin, goes to what @Jeff R said. I will take it to Willicutt's once I get it back from RS and see what they say. Better save my gigging $

"You will need to take this instrument Willcutt Guitars as they are a contracted Authorized Service Center of ours or a different Authorized Service Center. 

Typically, needing a neck reset is caused by environmental changes due to the changes in humidity and temperatures where the instrument is stored. This typically is considered a wear and tear item and not a manufacturing defect, but the Authorized Service Center will evaluate the instrument to determine this."

[BoogieMKIIA]

Got the Martin back, binding repair looks good.

The action is still a bit high and no saddle left to lower. A straightedge on the fingerboard lands at least 1/8" below the bridge body. Have two close by authorized Martin repair locations close by.