Home Recording thoughts...

[santellavision]

I am a big fan of home recording. Here's some thoughts on my obsession.
(Yes, I am obsessed, and probably need to seek help)

I dig hard rocking tube amps. Nothing like a pants flappin' 4x12 loud Bogner or Marshall or Boogie. Really the only place you can do that these days is at home - haha. Smaller clubs hate you. That's probably why smaller, lunchbox 18watt amps are so popular. If you don't own something like a Friedman Runt - 18 watt type amp, yeah, they get plenty loud, more than enough to play with a drummer. (I'm talking classic rock, not metal of course). I still have a few tube amps because, there just something to that feeling we all love.

Now, one of my things is home recording. I have bought and sold a lot of desktop/rack gear to try to capture great recording guitar tones. It's been quite a ride. My quest is to get both the best amp tone AND feel without an amp. I've been searching for best of the best amp sims you can get. I've owned a lot of the usual suspects, like AxeFx, Kemper and Synergy. I've owned a ton of older preamp/amp sim devices from way back. Digitech, Art Powerplant, Rocktron, Sansamp etc. And, a bunch of the latest, like Walrus, Quilter, DSM Simplifier and Dumble pedals. Universal Audio Lion/Ruby, ToneX (Another fav, some awesome Joe Satch captures), Strymon Iridium etc.

I also did get a Neural Quad Cortex that is pretty amazing. Might be my favorite new guitar pedal. If I were gigging again, I think I would use the Quad Cortex, it’s that good. The captures they have are... outstanding. I've also tried some new Software sims like the ToneX desktop and Neural Archetype: John Mayer.

Also, I have tried some nice Attenuator/direct boxes like the Universal Audio OX, TwoNotes Torpedo, Boss Waza Tube Expander, Palmer, RedSeven EVO and just got the new BadCat PurePath. OK, the Purepath is pretty freakin' good and really does an amazing job of capturing an amp, attenuating it (on or off, no middle) and outputting one of the best cab sims ever. Total Voodoo here, It was stunning. No frills, but the exact same tone coming out of the amp. I just got it and it's sweet. It was named the best product at this year's NAMM for good reason.

All these boxes have their uses and can fit certain music better than others. I can understand why a lot of big name bands use AxeFx's on stage these days, that says a lot about the quality of their tone. I also understand reliability and setup ease does come into play.

Quick Side Note. I was totally blown-away after watching the George Thorogood 'Rig Rundown' on Premier. No live amps, just a pedalboard into two, cheapo, Electro Harmonix '22 Caliper (22 watt) stompbox-size power amp pedals into two 2x12s. I've seen him a few times and damn, he sounded great. Whatever works, works! 

Back to my little rant. We all have a tone in our heads that we've heard over the years on great recordings or live. Or, have owned old vintage amps and remember how cool they were. I had a Marshall Plexi and a real '57 Gibson Goldtop in High school (All that stuff was just, old 'used' gear back in the 70s).

Now, when recording, I get pretty critical as I listen on high-quality monitors (Dynaudio BM15/Sub18) in my home studio. An important thing besides tone, is feel. Does it feel like a cranked amp when playing? Most of the amp sims seem to lack a bit in this area. I big part of that is how the guitar resonates with a loud amp. It's almost like a drug when that the guitar is on the edge of feeding back, it almost plays itself. I am a big Synergy fan. All-analog, no modeling. I have a bunch of tube amp modules that sound great. Their system does have a Sag control that gets a bit of that feel back. I recorded my last album almost entirely with the Synergy modules. 

My latest new toy is the Tone King Royalist pedal. Tone King has just been killing it with cool amps and now pedals. They have the Imperial pedal which is a Fender Blackface/Marshall combo 3 tube pedal with a 0-watt power amp simulator inside. And now the Royalist which is a two-channel, all British pedal with different flavors of Marshall and the 0-watt and a bunch of cab IRs. OK, I love it. I mean really love it. It has tone that is strikingly real, more so than most of the other gear. And, it feels great. I close my eyes and I am playing a Marshall. So good (It only does classic Marshall to slightly hot-rodded tone, not metal level gain stuff) It also takes pedals well if you want to boost it even more. Check out the review below and hear how good it is. 

I hope you can check it out, you'll love it too.

 

Edited Sunday at 06:01 PM by santellavision

[specialk]

Great review! The proof is in your recordings, thanks for posting. 

[veatch]

Good stuff. And I agree the proof is in your recordings. 

I'm still a ribbon and '57 off of the cabinet kind of guy. Double track and mix to taste. I get "meh" results, but that comes more from performance than engineering, I suspect...

Edited Sunday at 05:39 PM by veatch

[RobB]

Have you tried the SimplifierX, Ernie? Thinking of replacing an IR-X. Thoughts?

[Saul Goodman]

Thanks for that, Ernie. Lots of good info there. I too have tried many "devices." Most notably are the old Line 6 "crap" and old Guitar Rig "crap." I have a Pod HD rackmount that all I use it for is the volume knob when I watch movies or Youtube videos. 

Along came a few Laney Studio amps. A Lionhart Studio 5 and an Ironheart Studio 15. Both have XLR out and reamping features I like.

I do own a few Archetypes myself but I just like twisting knobs. I can't get used to sliding a mouse up or down on the simulation knobs. I tried to go all digital with those and failed. Went back to amps and 12", air moving speakers.

But, my Tone King Imperial Tri Tubey dooby I got about the same time as you is the pimp. And, when I plug it into my Cali Tweed at the right settings sounds exactly like my Cali Tweed. I can switch between them with the Bypass switch and they are really close. But of course, I can change it up so neither sounds the same. That is on the Rhythm Channel of course. And then there is the Lead Channel so I have 3 channels out of the one channel Cali. Plus the Cali has the power selector which is amazing. And one thing important to me is I can control all that sitting at my desk. And, once I have it dialed in I can switch over to record it with the IRs or some others I own and come pretty close to how it sounds in the room. 

I haven't tried the Royalist yet. Don't know if I will. I just have so much stuff and I'm really enjoying this amp @Dutchman built. I have never heard Fuzz sound so good. I was literally Jimi for about 20 minutes when I first fired the thing up. That's one pedal I could never get to sound right no matter what amp I used it in until my Dutchman. 

I did buy a QC for my son a few months ago as a graduation gift. I will be up in MA next week for a visit to see his progress with it. He's into the whole Tosin style of music I really don't understand but it will be the first time I see one in person. I imagine even though the tones are better than my Line 6 I won't like dealing with a LCD screen any more than on the Line 6.

Great review and info Ernie!!

[Jakeboy]

As a major recording songwriter and guitarist, Ernie’s post and recommendations resonate with me. Yet, like @veatch, I find there is no substitute for (most of the time) a tube amp  to a quality mic and preamp/compressor. Just like the old days. That said if I am adding a small part, a DI guitar or a Tech21 Sansamp can get me more than acceptable results quick. But even those go into a quality studio preamp and compressor.

If it sounds good it is good.

Edited yesterday at 12:19 AM by Jakeboy

[mathman]

I have been unsuccessfully recording since 1977 or so starting with using two cassette decks,  then moving to an Amiga computer then to 4 track and 8 track tape decks then to Mac computers and sticking with Mac.

Great insights, review.  Some amp sims try to emulate the amp sound and some try to emulate the "recorded" amp sound.  Big difference too.   One sounds better playing it "live" and the other sounds great as part of the recording mix. 

Either will work with recording but one takes more work and the other takes less work.  One sounds better while playing, the other "may" sound better in the recording mix.  JMO...  YMMV.

Edited Sunday at 09:21 PM by mathman

[santellavision]

19 hours ago, RobB said:

Have you tried the SimplifierX, Ernie? Thinking of replacing an IR-X. Thoughts?

I had the original Simplifier DLX when it came out, not the newer 'X' version. Not exactly sure what they mean by '0-Watt' amp sim and there are no tubes in this, like the Tone King and Synergy stuff that started the '0-Watt' amp thing. Hmmm. Sorry, I can't remember the original tones that well on it. DSM Humbolt does make nice stuff. I did try their latest Dumble box and it was pretty nice, I liked the clean a bit better than the OD side.

Edited Monday at 01:43 PM by santellavision

[scottcald]

19 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

Thanks for that, Ernie. Lots of good info there. I too have tried many "devices." Most notably are the old Line 6 "crap" and old Guitar Rig "crap." I have a Pod HD rackmount that all I use it for is the volume knob when I watch movies or Youtube videos. 

Along came a few Laney Studio amps. A Lionhart Studio 5 and an Ironheart Studio 15. Both have XLR out and reamping features I like.

I do own a few Archetypes myself but I just like twisting knobs. I can't get used to sliding a mouse up or down on the simulation knobs. I tried to go all digital with those and failed. Went back to amps and 12", air moving speakers.

But, my Tone King Imperial Tri Tubey dooby I got about the same time as you is the pimp. And, when I plug it into my Cali Tweed at the right settings sounds exactly like my Cali Tweed. I can switch between them with the Bypass switch and they are really close. But of course, I can change it up so neither sounds the same. That is on the Rhythm Channel of course. And then there is the Lead Channel so I have 3 channels out of the one channel Cali. Plus the Cali has the power selector which is amazing. And one thing important to me is I can control all that sitting at my desk. And, once I have it dialed in I can switch over to record it with the IRs or some others I own and come pretty close to how it sounds in the room. 

I haven't tried the Royalist yet. Don't know if I will. I just have so much stuff and I'm really enjoying this amp @Dutchman built. I have never heard Fuzz sound so good. I was literally Jimi for about 20 minutes when I first fired the thing up. That's one pedal I could never get to sound right no matter what amp I used it in until my Dutchman. 

I did buy a QC for my son a few months ago as a graduation gift. I will be up in MA next week for a visit to see his progress with it. He's into the whole Tosin style of music I really don't understand but it will be the first time I see one in person. I imagine even though the tones are better than my Line 6 I won't like dealing with a LCD screen any more than on the Line 6.

Great review and info Ernie!!

I too keep a couple of amps.  A Friedman PT-20 and a Carvin Steve Vai model.

Just a note:  Malcolm Young used Amplitude on a couple of tracks on I think it was Black Ice.  

I've used a lot of the modelers (Boss, Line6, Atomic, Fractal, Tonex, Headrest).  Each has flaws, but so does any equipment.  The biggest mistake most folks make is not doing a high cut on the cabinet block.  Of the YT guys, Leon Todd says he'll go as low as 5k on a crunch tone.  I've found about 8k on cleans, and 5 or 6k on overdriven tones to work well.  If it's really distorted, even a bit lower.  They're meant to sound like a recorded guitar, not you're standing next to an amp, which is to me why the high cut is useful. 

[BoogieMKIIA]

Great post. The main takeaway for me is to try lots of things and see what sounds good. And there is always something new. 

Our band has recorded the last several songs in the other guitar player's studio. He has been recording for years and has been adding lots of different EQ modules to a rack connected to his Midas board. While listening to him work, it's quite amazing what a difference it makes. Careful selection and adjustment for guitar, drums, vocals. And then the plugins on the board, compression, etc.

For guitar, he typically uses and old tube PA head that has been tweaked for guitar into a 1x12 isolation can (think a Celestion of some type, not sure the mic). Also his New Vintage 18W and recently his Pro Reverb mic'd (asking for the exact mic). He is tube only, we will see. We use our own guitars and pedal boards but sometimes try a different pedal.  The great thing is we still sound like ourselves and don't miss all the studio magic when we play live.

I have been thinking about an amp-less live rig. Is it possible to get a good idea by going to a music store to demo? Smaller/lighter is appealing even if it involves a lower powers SS amp and 1x12 cab. We mostly use IEMs, curious how that works with a direct setup with respect to feel, sustain/feedback.

 

[scottcald]

Personally, if you use in ears, take them to try out with it.  That's the one thing for me about in ears is having the guitar through it.  

A lot of people overlook the ISP stuff too.  They have FRFR cabs and it has a button that you can simply disable the tweeter on it. Also they have a cab emulation built in you can turn on if you like.  I've tried the Friedman IR stuff, but for me there's a frequency I don't like when you really crank the gain up.  

[velorush]

Would love to get into home recording and I've made half a dozen attempts but it always ends in paralysis by analysis.

The closest I got was when I bought a Yamaha THR and downloaded Reaper (IIRC). 

My Sweetwater Sales Engineer likely has tally marks on the wall for every time I've emailed asking questions - more data = more analysis. 

[mathman]

There is an acronym for home recording.

 JFDI

 

Just fucking do it

you get better once you fuck up some but it is very much a fun thing to do!

 

[mathman]

Also, NOHTHATYR....

No one has to hear any thing that you record

[Jakeboy]

What will help with the analysis-paralysis is if you can find someone experienced in recording to help you with your DAW, plugin recommendations, hardware recommendations, etc. it will save both time and money and get you to making music quicker, IME.