Uh oh....

[Bob P]

I agree with Steve.

I thought it would be a bargain at 10K.

You have to consider that the 40K price also reflects the current exchange rate. The exchange rate alone accounts for a 10K swing in the price.

[silentman]

There aren't gonna be too many buyers at that price point.

Imagine this coversation:

Me: Hey honey, I bought a new guitar today.

Wife: Another one?

Me: Well it's used actually. It's a Hamer Standard.

Wife: Isn't that one of those pointy ones you already have.

Me: yes, but this is a special one.

Wife: Oh really? What makes THIS ONE so special?

Me: Oh, it's just the second one made and celebrity owned.

Wife: OK, what are you selling to get it?

Me: Umm,

Wife: You know the rule, one in, one out.

Me: Umm.... I had to sell the cars and liquidate the kid's college funds.

Wife: *thud*

[Disturber]

I asked the seller about the pickups.

This is the reply: (!,?) (Greg is saying original pickups are removed).

Me:

"HI, What kind of pickups are in the guitar? "

Seller:

"The guitar has the original dimarzio pickups."

Stil out of my league pricewise. However If I sell my

two Standards... Ahh, never mind.

Disturber

[serial]

I got the same (or pretty close) reply. Unfortunately, the photos of this guitar from the ads all show it with a double black PAF in the bridge. I emailed back and forth about this sale with Paul Hamer and followed up with a question about the pickups, but haven't heard back yet.

My early Standard has Dimarzios (one is a rewound PAF with Dimarzio baseplate), but being fifteen digits and a year's time away from #0002, that is understandable.

[kizanski]

I must take issue with your observations and politely disagree, Mr. Kizanski. This was the second Standard made, the first one in this configuration. If it had the original pickups (which as I understood were PAFs, at least in the bridge) I would guess a selling price of more than $20k. Not necessaily because it was Martin's, but that it is such an early (and clean) example of a company as well respected as Hamer. This is also the guitar that was featured in all of the early Hamer ads (the hatless Rick N, the long strip ad) and in the first Hamer catalog. With "run of the mill" four digits with numbers over 100 selling in the $4-5k range now, this one is what collectors want-a "bragging rights guitar". Considering that an average 50s LP Junior is selling for what original four digits are and there are 12,000 or so of those out there and only 400 or so Standards, I think that this one is THE Hamer to get. Remember, these were completely hand made items as well.

You tell me what you think one of Paul Reed Smith's early (not even one of his first ten) guitars would sell for. My guess is well over $40k.

Well Mr. Matthes, I have to say that you have some valid points, but comparing a historically significant Hamer to a historically significant Gibson are two different things.

I would side with Hamer on quality 99 times out of 100, but as far as vintage guitar prices, I don't see them in the same ball park, maybe not even in the same sport.

IF it had the original PAF's (we already know that at least one of them is gone), I would say $15 - 20K max, and that is only because original PAF's are rediculously over-valued. I also forgot about it being the one in the ads from the time.

Anyway, what are you supposed to be? Some sort of expert on Hamer Guitars?!

[hardheartedbill]

theyre pulling a fast one ( and some PAF's! )

[jjguitarranch]

I could have seen 7K to a Hamer fanatic. Thats double 0055 and makes sense if your a very serious Hamer collector and I hear theres really only one of those:). It's not like the previous "star owner" is Page..... Real PAF's and completely original maybe 12k. Would the second junior made with a replaced pup be worth 3x any old 58-60 junior??

[cmatthes]

Justin:

You've not been minding the 4-digit Standard market much over the last 12 months, have you?!

It is tough to score a 4-digit Standard (unmolested) for under $4k these days, and the mantle of "serious collectors" of Hamers has certainly expanded in the last few years!

[RacerX]

Well, I'm glad we are all done with Infinity mirror posts.

This is an important guitar in Hamer history but hard-core Hamer collectors are a pretty small group compared to PRS collectors, and totally under the radar of Gibson and Fender collectors. So, I think the guitar is way over priced. My guess was 10-12k is about right. I agree with Steve that compared to, say, 50's Jr's, early Hamers are a bargain. But that feeling is still really only shared by this group. I'll bet the seller is banking on the Martin Barre connection to boost the value. But, as someone else mentioned, the exchange rate is working against this one coming home.

Whoever ends up with it, I hope they PLAY the thing! Yikes, that guitar is waaaay to clean to park next to my stuff! LOL

Mark.

[jjguitarranch]

My $3500 estimate for a war dog was that off target?! Tough sell cmatthes. There are maybe 10-20 people on earth willing and able to pony up 4K for an early Standard at the end of the day. They most likely all hang out here. Bottom line on the guitar in question is that a pup was replaced so it's not original and makes me wonder what else was replaced, the "star owner" is not Van Halen, the pictures suck, and it's not in this country. As an investment no one has a crystal ball. I would think about dropping 4K on an early Standard as speculating in the vintage guitar market. Not blue chip but could be a huge pay day one day......

[Buzzy Fretts]

>...but has not reached Reserve. <

I knew that Kiz. But Chris's comment sounded like the current bid- not the projected price tag.

Anyway, while Barre's most well known riffs were from the Aqualung record, his best playing was years away. Too bad for you that there a bit of flute on some fo those cuts.

[kizanski]

>...but has not reached Reserve. <

I knew that Kiz. But Chris's comment sounded like the current bid- not the projected price tag.

Anyway, while Barre's most well known riffs were from the Aqualung record, his best playing was years away. Too bad for you that there a bit of flute on some fo those cuts. 

AARRRGH!! KIZ HATE FLUTE!!

[Guest galejt]

Since when have you show any interest in scrawny Jesuit quarterbacks?

[cmatthes]

Trust me...there are far more well-heeled Hamer collectors out there than you think. I can think of a number of them who do not post here, and they WILL and DO drop big coin on the rare stuff.

Hamers may not be their primary collection material, but that is precisely why they would want the best of breed to go along with their 50s Les Pauls, Pre-CBS Fenders, Zemaitis, 80's PRS, etc. Since the traditional vintage market has thinned out and become overpriced (in my opinion) in the last 10 or so years, some people are looking for what they consider to be the next wave of good investment pieces.

You will have a tough time scoring a clean early Standard for under $4-$5k from anybody who knows the deal. As the numbers get lower, the prices will get higher. This is the single-most significant Hamer I've seen for sale in over 20 years. I think $40k is asinine to ask in the current market, but that thing could easily sustain a $10K asking price - it will likely be a bargain at $20K in the very near future.

Speculation? Of course, but I've been following the vintage market closely for over 20 years, and have paid particular attention to Hamers in the last 10+.

[jjguitarranch]

I respect your perspective cmatthes but just disagree. Don't want to start a flame war but 20K???? If your talking about an investment your into early 50's Gold Top money. To me everything is over priced including vintage Hamers. If the vintage guitar market goes poof I'd rather have 20k into a Gibson/Gibsons than any Hamer any day. I buy what I like within reason, so if there is a Hamer collector/player with 20K to spend on this guitar I say god bless him and enjoy the guitar!

[Jason01]

If the market goes poof you'd rather have 20k in a Gibson than a Hamer? If the market goes poof you're screwed either way and it won't matter if its a Gibson or a Hamer. As they've already said, this is the most significant Hamer to ever hit the open market. It's worth whatever people are willing to pay, whether thats 5k or 50k. Unfortunately this is ebay, so its not who has the deepest pockets but who has the highest bid when the counter hits zero. Fun auction to keep an eye on though. Best of luck to everyone, I'm glad I'm not in the market for this as I'd have to start selling everything I own, plus a bunch of stuff I don't own to finance it. Anyone wanna buy a bridge? How about a mars lander?

[jjguitarranch]

Jason the idea was that an over priced Gibson would retain more of it's over priced value than a over priced Hamer. If that makes any sense?

[Buzzy Fretts]

10k and the Reserve cherry remains intact. Might be an interesting weekeend....

[jjguitarranch]

absolutely incredible.....

[Bob P]

Does anyone here know if the eBay ad would be considered "revised" if the seller changes his reserve amount?????

Just wondering if maybe his original reserve went up due to the interest here. Is there any way to tell.

[foodermon]

I'm starting to think that the 0002 listing on evil bay is an exercise in appraisal. I woulda thought the reserve woulda busted by now. Easy enuf to throw a treasure up there to find out what it's maybe worth. Just set the reserve to some ridiculously high amount X 2. interesting twist is that this may be as good as it gets for a while (price wise) for the seller, assuming that the greenback makes a rebound on Euro currencies. All of the bids are from the US.

I dunno.. just kinda pondering..

[kizanski]

I'm starting to think that the 0002 listing on evil bay is an exercise in appraisal.

Once it went past the $7500 mark, I started to think the same thing...

[cmatthes]

I honestly think the seller (really!!!) thinks this is going to hit $40k. I don't, but I think that is driving it. I don't think it will get to half that right now, but it's still within the range I thought it would be.

[Bob P]

Chris- I think you are correct. If it hits 20K USD I think the seller should take the money and run and the buyer has paid tomorrow's prices today but has still secured a Hamer treasure (provided the guitar arrives as presented).

Fooderman, I used to purchase a lot of high dollar machinery from an English company. The formula we used to estimate costs for purchasing was selling price in GBP x the exhange rate x 1.095 for freight and duty. The seller has the auction listed in GBP (Pound) currency. He gets his asking price in his currency no matter what (as long as it meets reserve).. The real matter is what does his currency cost to a USA buyer. Consider that the exchange rate is approx $1.90 = 1 GBP. That is what I meant by the $10,000 swing in my previous post. In the year 2000, the exchange rate was roughly $1.40 to the 1GBP.

If the seller wanted 20,000 GBP in the year 2000 that would have cost 20,000x 1.40 = $28,000 usd + shipping, duty, etc.

In 2005 currency (1.90 exchange rate) 20,000 GBP cost us $38,000 usd + shipping, duty, etc.

Right now the bottom line is the exchange rate only favors the Brits if they are buying something from us- not selling. He would have more potential USA buyers chomping at the bit if the exchange rate were lower.

[foodermon]

If the seller wanted 20,000 GBP in the year 2000 that would have cost 20,000x 1.40 = $28,000 usd + shipping, duty, etc.

In 2005 currency (1.90 exchange rate)  20,000 GBP cost us $38,000 usd + shipping, duty, etc.

Right now the bottom line is the exchange rate only favors the Brits if they are buying something from us- not selling.  He would have more potential USA buyers chomping at the bit if the exchange rate were lower.

that's correct.. good deals if you're buying from the UK, not so good for selling. a stronger $ and lower exchange rate would have more potential US buyers "chomping at the bit" as you say, potentially putting more GBP in the sellers pocket.. but not necessarily..

I had some bass ackwards thinking going on in my prior post.

the end is nearing on this auction.. It will be interesting to see where it lands!